A Few Words On Censorship

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:27 pm

I just politely and openly exited a large site. Reason was I politely and factually countered anti semitic posts, and my information was removed. There was nothing abusive in it. Mostly it was some information on Jewish history, Egyptian and Roman. Simply to show Israel existed historically as an Empire and how later history and geography was affected.
Maybe someone might agree but how come those large sites use "moderation" as a means to prevent others not sharing a majority view? This was very much a negative aspect of the old Soviet Union where you were considered a class enemy for endorsing capitalism, or free markets.
So, these days you find these social media forums where "disagreeing" demands censorship.
Looking at it now in Freudian terms:
Could anti semitism be a subconscious fear based around Christianity - a subconscious fear that if a religion isn't shared it casts doubt on its unassailable nature. Example: John Lennon blurted out once he considered the apostles were "thick" and all hell broke loose. Beatles records banned and threats made against Lennon. What caused the extreme reaction? Freud would suggest it was the suggested doubt or instinctive fear of an after life questioned? This may sound far fetched but you find the same thing with gay and lesbian sexuality. Those people who hate gay men almost always have latent, conflicting tendencies. Whereas sexually secure men accept a gay colleague at work and have no issue over it. In fact, the former scenario illustrates Bleuler's ambivalence, where a personality is divided into love and hate.
Lately there's been a big persecution of Jehovas Witnesses in Russia. Again, we see a different ideology that opposes another because a lot of people today demand we should think a certain way.
As Muhammad Ali once stated. He said as heavyweight champ he was going to think how he wanted to think, and not how others thought he should think. Besides that surely it's democracy (what's left of it).
As to other sites I am on, these have changed hugely. Given they are Russian I get the feeling people are afraid I might be a "foreign agent". Xenophobia is everwhere it seems.
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#1

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:45 pm

BBC reporters kicked out of Russia to respond to restrictions on RT. Visas cancelled permanently. I can't help but notice that these days the phenomenon of "likes" controls the representation of "fact". The trend is to express what you think people want to hear and not what you analysed as supposed truth. I even suggested before the social media "likes" culture dumbed down analytical thought. So Charles Darwin nowadays would be ignored as people don't "like" being compared to evolved apes.
It would be so easy to be popular and give out preferred, palatable information. Even tailor your views to reflect one chosen outlook and ignore the grey areas.
What you see is no perspective and groups polarised to all hold the same view. To question the orthodox line is to invite censorship. That's why we appear to be drifting to at least a Cold War, or worse.
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#2

Postby bawdyheated » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:20 am

Crazy times. It seems like there is no progression.
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#3

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:10 pm

bawdyheated wrote:Crazy times. It seems like there is no progression.


I think conspiracy theory has been accepted as normal in society but often it's a psychiatric disorder. There's a difference between holding a sceptical view and distrust, compared to complete lack of perspective of reality.
It was my misfortune to take part in a very large anti vax forum where a great many members gather their information on extremist websites, without any genuine critical judgement, or tested sources. All they see on the news they believe is fake. Any global incident is, in their view, a staged event. Some believe tbe world is populated by shape-shifters. Very many believe Adolf Hitler was an honourable figure (framed by conspiratorial illuminati, and so on). Attempting to quote history sources (in my case, at least,) led to removal of posted material. I'm sure not all these peop!e are remote from reality to the same extent but perhaps 60 per cent suffer Paraphrenia. See below (1940s Psychology)

"The group of paraphrenia sufferers show the following individual forms. Systematic paraphrenia is characterized by the slow and gradual development of nonsense, which exhibits an inclination to systematization; Halucinations play a more or less significant role. For a long time, the association of intelligence, common liveliness and performance are preserved. In general, these are those cases that were previously allocated and are attributed to early dementia from the Paraphrenia group and chronic delusion. Some cases of systematic paraphrenia are with a certain right could be considered a real paranoia."
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#4

Postby quietvoice » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:17 pm

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#5

Postby tokeless » Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:13 pm

I think conspiracy theory has been accepted as normal in society but often it's a psychiatric disorder.

I disagree and think it's more a method of shutting discussion or investigation down. You elude to them as tinfoil hat wearers instead, which gives the impression that anything they say is nonsense. Ironically, it's a form of censorship if you think about it. A theory is just that until you have some evidence or substance to base the theory on. It then is no longer a theory but a possibility, however unlikely, but it is no longer a theory. I think the ring of steel placed around any constructive debate about Israel or Zionism actually fuels antisemitism, because for those who believe that powerful Jews manipulate antisemitism to back their own agenda (I don't btw) see that as proof that they are right. There is no debate because it is shut down, so it becomes circular. I think we live in strange times and new language has been constructed via social media, such as fake news, alternative facts.... utter nonsense and is another way of describing a lie without admitting it's a lie. The more it is repeated the more it becomes accepted as valid...or the truth. Goebbels mastered this form of propaganda, hence why they say truth is the enemy of the state.
I agree that people look for likes as validation of who they are or what they believe and this is so easy to manipulate. What is truth these days? I tend to accept that my opinions are just that, they are not necessarily facts, unless I support them. Problem is, on the internet you can find 'proof' to support anything.
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#6

Postby davidbanner99@ » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:24 pm

tokeless wrote:I think conspiracy theory has been accepted as normal in society but often it's a psychiatric disorder.

I disagree and think it's more a method of shutting discussion or investigation down. You elude to them as tinfoil hat wearers instead, which gives the impression that anything they say is nonsense. Ironically, it's a form of censorship if you think about it. A theory is just that until you have some evidence or substance to base the theory on. It then is no longer a theory but a possibility, however unlikely, but it is no longer a theory. I think the ring of steel placed around any constructive debate about Israel or Zionism actually fuels antisemitism, because for those who believe that powerful Jews manipulate antisemitism to back their own agenda (I don't btw) see that as proof that they are right. There is no debate because it is shut down, so it becomes circular. I think we live in strange times and new language has been constructed via social media, such as fake news, alternative facts.... utter nonsense and is another way of describing a lie without admitting it's a lie. The more it is repeated the more it becomes accepted as valid...or the truth. Goebbels mastered this form of propaganda, hence why they say truth is the enemy of the state.
I agree that people look for likes as validation of who they are or what they believe and this is so easy to manipulate. What is truth these days? I tend to accept that my opinions are just that, they are not necessarily facts, unless I support them. Problem is, on the internet you can find 'proof' to support anything.


I'm not ruling out conspiracy theories altogether but trying to draw a line of distinction. Neither do I object to informed criticisms over Israel. The problem I refer to is specifically that my outline of historical background was simply removed. It was polite, based on sources and as factual as I could manage. I see no reason why a contrary view (which I forwarded) should be simply removed, as opposed to challenged.
I'll try not to get bogged down here over Israel history since my point goes much wider. Really, you could say some weeks experience listening to many conspiracy theorists leads me to conclude, in many cases, Paraphrenia applies. Here, I go way beyond Israel. The majority of theorists don't believe The Apollo missions put men on the moon yet there is no argument based on physics, or German rocket technology. Even Gagarin isn't mentioned. And above all, conspiracy theory is pretty negative in nature these days and tends to either seek scapegoats (like Nero and the Christians), or deny advances in science. Very often, I came across the phrase "God help us all!", used to sign off another gloomy message.
Years ago, when Bush invaded Afghanistan, a girl I knew from North Carolina calmly told me, "It"s a New World Order!" She watched a conspiracy channel called Coast To Coast, with guest-stars like Whitney Streiber. Yesterday it hit me the illuminati seem to have gone off course, yet again. The New World Order appears to have gone back to the Original World Order in Afghanistan. The point is the New World Order mantra gets an airing every time there's a crisis. Yet, the secret agenda seems always to come a proverbial cropper.
I don't target here people who suspect hidden agendas but more those who won't even debate or consider alternatives. And the loss of reality when real books and history is just left aside.
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#7

Postby davidbanner99@ » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:45 pm

One possible case of social Paraphrenia could well be the men in black. These mysterious, pale-faced men were thought to visit homes of UFO reporters and hint at threats.

"In popular culture and UFO conspiracy theories, men in black (MIB) are supposed men dressed in black suits who claim to be quasi-government agents who harass, threaten or sometimes even assassinate UFO witnesses to keep them quiet about what they have seen. The term is also frequently used to describe mysterious men working for unknown organizations, as well as various branches of government allegedly designed to protect secrets or perform other strange activities."

In my USSR hospital files I found the patient history of Anna Ivanova, dated 1950s. Here, it reads:

"There were a lot of young people, who arranged some mysterious meetings and events. Soon she heard a domestic worker in the kitchen report that the upper tenants said: 'Anna Ivanovna (Patient) will not leave our hands.' This phrase has further strengthened her thoughts about being followed. " Prof Gilyarovskiy
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#8

Postby tokeless » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:14 am

davidbanner99@ wrote:One possible case of social Paraphrenia could well be the men in black. These mysterious, pale-faced men were thought to visit homes of UFO reporters and hint at threats.

"In popular culture and UFO conspiracy theories, men in black (MIB) are supposed men dressed in black suits who claim to be quasi-government agents who harass, threaten or sometimes even assassinate UFO witnesses to keep them quiet about what they have seen. The term is also frequently used to describe mysterious men working for unknown organizations, as well as various branches of government allegedly designed to protect secrets or perform other strange activities."

In my USSR hospital files I found the patient history of Anna Ivanova, dated 1950s. Here, it reads:

"There were a lot of young people, who arranged some mysterious meetings and events. Soon she heard a domestic worker in the kitchen report that the upper tenants said: 'Anna Ivanovna (Patient) will not leave our hands.' This phrase has further strengthened her thoughts about being followed. " Prof Gilyarovskiy



Not sure what the relevance is for that post. Also, you infer a mental disorder but put this as a social phenomenon.
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#9

Postby Candid » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:19 am

quietvoice wrote:^^^
So, what are you saying here?

In Totalitarian Australia you disagree with narrative you get locked up

So shocking, qv. I knew there was something weird going on in Oz because almost everyone I know there is spouting the government narrative. Now I see why!

I suspect Australians' emails are being monitored by unfriendly agents, which means the men in the white coats will soon be coming for me.
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#10

Postby tokeless » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:47 am

Candid wrote:
quietvoice wrote:^^^
So, what are you saying here?

In Totalitarian Australia you disagree with narrative you get locked up

So shocking, qv. I knew there was something weird going on in Oz because almost everyone I know there is spouting the government narrative. Now I see why!

I suspect Australians' emails are being monitored by unfriendly agents, which means the men in the white coats will soon be coming for me.


They're part of the 5 eyes protocol. Australia is like the US in the southern hemisphere imo. Very nationalistic when I lived there.
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#11

Postby Candid » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:05 am

I noticed the same thing, all very ra-ra. It looked to me like an inferiority complex.
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#12

Postby tokeless » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:53 am

Candid wrote:I noticed the same thing, all very ra-ra. It looked to me like an inferiority complex.


I noticed that everything Australian was the biggest/best in the southern hemisphere, whereas the US it's the world. I thought the country was stunning but the people quite closed minded and OZ right or wrong.
That video link is a little odd and any decent lawyer will destroy them for that.... assuming the law offers that level of protection.
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#13

Postby davidbanner99@ » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:37 pm

Well, what we see seems to me the abandonment of democracy. I know democracy has always been a bit of a convenience platform in the USA, but there was a respect there for open disagreement and accountability in politics. I was already aware of Australia and the loss of freedoms there. Russia is even worse if you compare the democratic reforms of Perestroika in 1989 and Putin's one-party state. My theory is you can't have a functional democracy without a solid, State education system and a fixed constitution. On that score, the EU Social Charter appears to be just empty paper.
So, back to the point. I should clarify I don't view Candid in any way as a tinfoil hat wearer. We both appear to be anti vax for our own particular reasons. Candid seems quite rational and reasonable to me. My specific point was that the concept of disagreement on large websites isn't understood. You are supposed to blindly follow an approved line, and to disagree means your views get removed. What baffled me is there were complaints about censorship on Youtube channels, complaints which were justified but then they themselves also censor and remove opinions that differ from their own. To me that's plain hypocritical.
As to Paraphrenia, this was classified by Kraepelin as a paranoid disorder where there's a loss of reality. Such people genuinely are convinced they are being followed by men in black or that politicians are shape-shifting reptilians. This was often to be found on the site I quit.
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#14

Postby davidbanner99@ » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:05 pm

A touch off topic but last night I got quite a jolt reading about Gnosticism. These were beliefs the early Christians had, that were rejected at the time Orthodoxy was established under Constantine. These texts were written in Coptic. What struck me was the similarity of Gnostic Christianity to the Zen of Juddu Krishnamurti. This philosophy stresses knowledge of self as the key to understanding as a whole. Bruce Lee was highly influenced by Krishnamurti.

(Gnostic text says)
"Rather, the kingdom is inside of you and outside of you.”
When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father.
(5) But if you do not come to know yourselves, then you exist in poverty, and you are poverty.”

Krishnamurti wrote:
"The more you know yourself, the more clarity there is. Self-knowledge has no end – you don’t achieve, you don’t come to a conclusion. It is an endless river."
—KRISHNAMURTI
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