Sex and Anger

Postby jack_j » Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:22 am

Firstly I want to thank everyone here on uncommon forum.

I had an addiction diary here on this forum 10 years ago to help me stop smoking weed and cigarettes. I wrote in it everyday for many months which was critical in helping me stop.

I have not touched these substances for over 10 years now all thanks to this forum. My only “substance addiction” now a days is green tea.

I also want to thank Leo Volont I have read a lot of his material in the last 2 weeks or so and appreciate the no nonsense way he writes about Anger – it resonates with me deeply.

I have been trying the jaw relaxation technique to prevent the cortisol flow with varying degrees of success.

I am not sure if my current issues belong in this section I am sorry if they should be elsewhere but I am going to start here.

About 6 years ago I met my partner. I probably (more like definitely) wasn’t the best boyfriend and would always get angry over the smallest things. To cut a long story short she threatened to leave several times which forced me to look deep within.

I have had several serious relationships and it suddenly occurred to me that every woman told me the same thing before they left. That I was completely crazy and prone to getting angry at the smallest things. I always thought it was them that were the crazy ones because they did not do what I wanted them to.

I finally realised 6 years ago that it was probably ME with the problem (and my expectations of them) and not everyone else.

I started looking into spirituality and other self help material which helped a lot. I did the Wim Hof method then I went real deep and attended several Vipassana retreats where I spent 10 days in complete silence observing my sensations. I even kept up a 2 hours a day meditation practice for 2 years.

Things have gotten much much better and all these things (especially the Vipassana) have helped immensely. I am a much more calm person now and I can’t remember the last time I shouted or raised my voice. I think it’s probably been a few years.

So why am I here?!!

Even though things have become a lot better between my partner and I, I still get very angry when it comes to sex. Especially if it doesn’t happen.

I won’t necessarily shout at her but I will be verbally abusive and start asking her about her ex-boyfriends and why they got more sex than I do and also say a lot of other nasty things. I now realise a lot of these things I am doing are coercive and manipulating her into having sex with me by trying to make her feel bad about not having sex with me.

It probably doesn’t sound serious (maybe it does) but it has resulted in her getting extremely stressed out and she works herself up to the point where she will start hitting herself if these arguments we have about sex escalate.

Sometimes she gives in and we have sex, sometimes she gets really angry I am putting pressure on her to have sex and she won’t talk to me for 2-3 days, which makes me even more angry. As that’s another 2-3 days without sex.

I don’t expect to have sex everyday, but 1 or 2 times a week seems to be kind of where I feel satisfied.

I wrote the above text about 2 weeks ago and never got round to posting it. I have been reading more and more of the forum and in particular Leo Volont’s material because I have noticed meditation and the other techniques I mentioned above have only taken me so far. In the heat of the moment (what I now understand to be cortisol release) the intensity is so high, the meditation goes out the window, I need something more constructive to keep me in check in those moments.

Since writing the above out 2 weeks ago and trying out some more of the techniques (relaxing my jaw and breathing) things have gotten a lot better. To be honest I think just writing about all this stuff has helped me a lot just like writing in my weed diary here ten years ago helped me immensely. The more consistency I got not smoking the easier it became to quit. Writing about it keeps it fresh in my memory.

I would love so much to quit my anger completely in the same way I quit smoking cigarettes and weed and be the that “chilled guy” that Leo Volont talks about. The one employees pretend to hate in interviews but is actually the most productive/efficient employee.

Things were getting bad again 2 weeks ago until I wrote this out and started working hard on backing off a bit. I allowed my partner some space to be the one to make the move when it comes to sex and just being the “chilled out guy”. It has worked wonders we have had sex 3 times in 2 days (4/5 times this week) and she seems to want me a lot more the more I have backed off.

I really love this woman she is unbelievable and I feel very strongly that we should only have sex when it is 100% what we both want and not just coerced or done to keep me happy. I do realise my past behaviours (getting angry at her for not having sex were very wrong and just coercive. No one should do something, especially as penetrative as sex unless they 100% want to.)

Bottom line - things are in a really good place right now but I am worried I will stuff things up again and I want to be mentally prepared for times where she doesn’t want to have sex with me for a while (say a week or more – which seems to be my absolute tolerance) and I don’t get angry at her but instead act like mr cool and just say hey no worries no big deal whenever you are ready we can do it.

Same for all situations really. Obviously there is a little spillover into our relationship where we can bicker or argue a little over small things but I have noticed the last 2 weeks with a more laid back approach she has calmed down quick and in fact jumped me (sex or even kissing) when she realised I was not getting defensive or arguing back but instead trying to see things from her perspective and understanding why she may be angry at me over something. I have taken a much more passive approach if she gets angry at me and just let her vent, not said much back apart from hey I understand etc.

My biggest worry is maintaining this “cool guy” approach and not letting anything perturb me. The last 2 weeks have been the most wonderful of my life and best in any relationship but how can I maintain this level when all I have known is the opposite for so long.

Perhaps for now just writing here regularly will help to remind me that there really is no benefit to retaliation, getting angry or reacting negatively. Absolutely no benefit. In fact the rewards of being cool calm and collected are amazing I have seen that already.

also there is no place at all for me to apply any pressure on any woman to have sex. Unacceptable.

If anyone has any techniques or small things that help to keep this laid back “cool guy” level I would be open to exploring.

Thanks for listening to my jumbled up rant.

Jack
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#1

Postby Candid » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:55 am

jack_j wrote:I still get very angry when it comes to sex. Especially if it doesn’t happen.

I won’t necessarily shout at her but I will be verbally abusive and start asking her about her ex-boyfriends and why they got more sex than I do and also say a lot of other nasty things. I now realise a lot of these things I am doing are coercive and manipulating her into having sex with me by trying to make her feel bad about not having sex with me.

I'm glad you recognise this is coercive and I'm not surprised you've had trouble maintaining relationships for any length of time. Making your partners feel bad about saying no to you guarantees the opposite of what you want.

It's probable other men here can suggest where else you might put it when your partner's "not in the mood", but that isn't the point. As you've discovered, when sex becomes coercive or even 'just' manipulative, "not in the mood" is likely to happen more often.

Throughout your post you've minimised what you're doing to the woman you say you "really love":

It probably doesn’t sound serious (maybe it does) but it has resulted in her getting extremely stressed out and she works herself up to the point where she will start hitting herself if these arguments we have about sex escalate.

Maybe it sounds serious??

Your partner is a masochist. That means she takes other people's bad behaviour out on herself. All you notice is that she won't let you masturbate into her.

I don’t expect to have sex everyday, but 1 or 2 times a week seems to be kind of where I feel satisfied.

Frankly, this is gross. This woman is human, with thoughts and feelings of her own. She isn't a machine, she isn't a hole surrounded by flesh, and she isn't stupid. She knows full well that you do NOT love her, you just want somewhere to put it. It's my educated guess life has gone very wrong for her at some stage—and that's before she met you—but we're not talking about her, we're talking about you, your expectations of relationship, and your belief that any woman you're involved with is there to serve your interests.

Things were getting bad again 2 weeks ago until I wrote this out and started working hard on backing off a bit. I allowed my partner some space to be the one to make the move when it comes to sex...

You "allowed" her to make the decision. Heck, I hope she was suitably grateful.

... and just being the “chilled out guy”. It has worked wonders we have had sex 3 times in 2 days (4/5 times this week) and she seems to want me a lot more the more I have backed off.

Yes, she was.

So this is what you wanted: a more effective way of manipulating another person into serving your needs.

I feel very strongly that we should only have sex when it is 100% what we both want and not just coerced or done to keep me happy. I do realise my past behaviours (getting angry at her for not having sex were very wrong and just coercive. No one should do something, especially as penetrative as sex unless they 100% want to.)

In a healthy relationship this wouldn't need to be spelled out. Leaving that aside, you two have a history and she knows full well that if she doesn't initiate regularly, you're going to get ugly again. While I'm sure she prefers to believe she's making a choice, she has to keep a Schedule of Service in her head to make sure she doesn't rest too long or she may end up having to service you when she's tired or not feeling well.

Bottom line - things are in a really good place right now but I am worried I will stuff things up again and I want to be mentally prepared for times where she doesn’t want to have sex with me for a while (say a week or more – which seems to be my absolute tolerance)...

You make my point for me, and I doubt she would agree that "things are in a really good place right now". Women are more attuned to the feelings of others than men are, and you seem to be particularly obtuse when it comes to understanding what motivates your partner.

If anyone has any techniques or small things that help to keep this laid back “cool guy” level I would be open to exploring.

Obviously I'm not going to give you suggestions as to how you might ensure your partner remains compliant. Something's gone very wrong for you, too. Unaddressed horniness triggers uncomfortable feelings of rejection and vulnerability, and coupled with her problems it's highly unlikely you two can create a healthy relationship without outside intervention. Even if you two had pots of money to blow on therapy, it would be a long process made more difficult by coronahoax restrictions.

My best suggestion, and I don't expect you to like it, is that you two agree not to have penetrative sex for at least six months. You can masturbate as much as you like, you can bring each other to orgasm in other ways, but her vagina, her mouth and her anus are out of bounds. Talk to each other respectfully and as honestly as you can manage at this stage. Aim to understand each other's painful triggers and boundaries, which means first figuring out what they are.

I know, that's a lot to ask of someone who's never learned to love and trust himself, much less a woman he's involved with, and I wish both of you the best of luck.
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#2

Postby jack_j » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:04 pm

I can see why you are called candid. My initial reaction to what you wrote was "who the hell does this person think they are".

However, very quickly after reading what you wrote several times I am actually very grateful for your reply and agree with most of it.

It is probably better I hear a dose of truth rather than someone saying "don't worry it will all be OK.".

I do think you misunderstood a few of my points because of the way I wrote them but overall 90% of what you say is probably fair.

I know I have no God given right to sex from any woman however a healthy relationship is based on having sex. Something you seem to have missed from your reply.

I understand things come up, a partner can be tired or not in the mood or have their attention elsewhere for a while. They may not want sex for a plethora of reasons and I understand I need to be understanding and not put pressure on her in these circumstances.

"Unaddressed horniness triggers uncomfortable feelings of rejection and vulnerability" are clearly things I have to deal with I agree when these dry spells or periods where she doesn't want to have sex occur.

We have had quite a bit of in person counselling as you mentioned and discussed all of these things in depth over the last 2 months and things are much better now. Obviously it requires ongoing work to avoid it slipping back.

We had sex this morning which is very unusual as it is now 4 times in 4 days. I have not even mentioned sex nor asked for it and she knows I am extremely content with once a week. So I know she is initiating because she wants to. No coercion. And when I say I am content with once a week before you say some sarcastic comment about that I don't mean I have a right to it once a week I am merely saying that is what stops me from having those episodes of negative feelings or thoughts towards her.

I agree with you she may well on occasion be initiating to satisfy some sort of schedule but I have told her repeatedly she doesn't need to do that.

It will take time for her to "trust" me fully that I won't react if we don't have sex but I can only keep being that "chilled out" guy around here that doesn't put pressure on her at all.

I do think your reply is severely lacking any holistic look at a relationship. Yes I talked about sex but I know her issue with me is my attitude towards a whole manner of things that are unrelated to sex. Speaking to her nicely, listening to her, paying attention to her problems, being more considerate if she needs something. Cleaning the house, cooking her dinner now and again. Making her a cup of tea or just generally asking her if she is OK.

I am doing a lot more of these things and she seems to want to have sex with me a lot all of a sudden. I do not deny that some of those occasions may be to keep me happy but I know the more and more I remind her there is no pressure and I show her in all aspects of our relationship that I am a "good guy" then I think we will be happy.

Not having sex for six months is a completely ridiculous suggestion. I am not a nun. If she makes it clear to me she doesn't want sex for six months then that is different. She is a pretty blunt person and if that's what she wanted she would say it.

I have taken on board many of the points you have made and yes I agree some serious issues need addressing. You have given me some things I hadn't thought seriously about. In particular "Unaddressed horniness triggers uncomfortable feelings of rejection and vulnerability". I said to my partner this is why I feel so rejected when she says no. We have spoken very openly about these things.

I probably just haven't addressed it properly. I will look into them. Thanks.

I will continue to write here now and again as it helps me.
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#3

Postby Leo Volont » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:38 pm

Hi Jack,

Wow! I don't think it is possible to tell you how much your post means to me. It's really a validation for me, that no matter what happens now, that my Life had meaning. Yeah, I've gotten positive feedback before, but this was really 'broad band' affirmation for me. Oh, but I think we have more in common than you might now suspect. I have a YouTube Channel, "Leo Volont". It's split between Politics and Spirituality, which I NEVER touch on here. This is me with my Anger Management Hat on here. But you might enjoy my Spiritual Stuff which is REALLY Counter-intuitive (I make the argument for Dualism! but that is after a life time of going the Advaita Vedanta Path... so if anybody can criticize, I can). Yeah, searching Leo Volont "Creating a Better God" even on Google would get you to my Channel... the Series Videos are best accessed from my Playlist Menu which plays the Series in order. I'm presently redoing "The White Light Paramahamsa Swan Dream" video, adding two parts of just commentary. I really need to get back to it. Editorial Re-writes take almost a month because it takes my Ideas a while to emerge and develop and then it takes about a week of daily rewrites before a new section has the best balance of Narrative Sense and Poetic Flare (I call much of my stuff in the style of "narrative poetry") . But, yeah, I'm happy with "Creating a Better God" and "The Material Mechanics of Spirituality" and two of my earliest videos, since they haven't gone into re-write, well, I'm happy with them: "Kundalini and the Collective Consciousness" and "Kundalini and the Faculty of True Discernment" both built up largely around actual dreams I've had. Yeah, I think you might enjoy some of that stuff.

Again, thank you so much for your Post.
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#4

Postby Candid » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:39 am

jack_j wrote:We have had quite a bit of in person counselling as you mentioned and discussed all of these things in depth over the last 2 months and things are much better now.

That's great, Jack. In fact the whole tone of this second post has a different vibe from the first—which you said you'd written some time ago.

when I say I am content with once a week [... ] I am merely saying that is what stops me from having those episodes of negative feelings or thoughts towards her.

What happens when you're between relationships, Jack? Do those negative feelings find another outlet, or do they turn on YOU?

I agree with you she may well on occasion be initiating to satisfy some sort of schedule but I have told her repeatedly she doesn't need to do that.

You give permissions as well as orders! But still she knows what happens if the doesn't do that.

I know her issue with me is my attitude towards a whole manner of things that are unrelated to sex. Speaking to her nicely, listening to her, paying attention to her problems, being more considerate if she needs something. Cleaning the house, cooking her dinner now and again. Making her a cup of tea or just generally asking her if she is OK.

These are all normal maintenance things, and this paragraph suggests it's she who usually does the bulk of cleaning, cooking, and making cups of tea. Are "Speaking to her nicely, listening to her, paying attention to her problems, being more considerate if she needs something" behaviours you get points for? Does it feel like work to you?

Not having sex for six months is a completely ridiculous suggestion.

If the two of you consulted a relationship therapist, both individually and together, that's the least of what would be suggested!
In particular "Unaddressed horniness triggers uncomfortable feelings of rejection and vulnerability". I said to my partner this is why I feel so rejected when she says no. We have spoken very openly about these things.

And yet nothing changes, which is why you'd have better hope of keeping this relationship long-term if you had a qualified third party involved.

I gather you're quite the charmer, having what it takes to woo any woman you fancy, so for you there IS no "between relationships"!
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#5

Postby jack_j » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:25 am

@Candid before I reply I just wanted to start by saying thank you very much for taking time out of your day to help me. It is amazing that people are willing to help for free.

Also just wanted to say if I come across as if I disagree with anything said, I do realise that everything is subjective and just because I disagree with something said doesn't make what has been said wrong. It is just my opinion but I am always open to changing my beliefs/thought process after a period of reflection. Just want to be clear I am not trying to be defensive.

Bottom line thanks a lot your help is very much appreciated. I am saying all this as it is 2.30 am and I am rushing a bit with my replies so if I come across ungrateful or abrupt it is more a case of limited time this week (running multiple businesses) as oppose to rudeness.

What happens when you're between relationships, Jack? Do those negative feelings find another outlet, or do they turn on YOU?


Context is crucial I guess. If I don't have a partner in front of me I don't have the issues in front of me so it is out of sight out of mind. I have had long periods of time being single and I really enjoyed it and was content not having much sex. The issues I have are in part a symptom of being in a relationship. Along with my own personal issues which you highlighted before.

You give permissions as well as orders! But still she knows what happens if the doesn't do that.


Maybe yes. Like I said I am open to being wrong but today we had sex for the 5th time this week. Highly unusual. I think she is happy I am making the changes she asked of me (discussed below).

These are all normal maintenance things, and this paragraph suggests it's she who usually does the bulk of cleaning, cooking, and making cups of tea. Are "Speaking to her nicely, listening to her, paying attention to her problems, being more considerate if she needs something" behaviours you get points for? Does it feel like work to you?


It's complicated or at least would take me hours to write out. But no that is not the case and actually I have always done the bulk of the cooking, cleaning and general maintenance. The issue was I was a bit of a fitness freak when we first met. I would cook 30-40 chicken breasts on a Sunday and eat from that through the week. I would also weigh every gram of food and count calories religiously. And train a lot in the gym.

This completely messed with her head. Her oestrogen levels, her health, her mind, everything went south fast as she felt pressure to do the same as me. Like I said its complicated to write in a paragraph but I really messed this woman's head up.

We just bought a really nice house together and we have now agreed. No more weighing scales no more dieting and more being a bit more normal. Go shopping, cook nice meals and so on. That's what I mean by I am now cooking some nice meals for us to eat every night. Before we would eat as per my strict diet. I think it really messed her up.

Regarding "re "Speaking to her nicely, listening to her, paying attention to her problems, being more considerate if she needs something" behaviours you get points for? Does it feel like [i]work " Now that I have never done. I have got better over time but only recently in the last few weeks am I actually talking to her. Having conversations about her. Her life. Until now it was me me me. My life, My fitness, my this my business my that.

I barely asked her anything noir did I listen. Now I am talking to her, listening, paying more attention to her. Maybe that's why she is suddenly having a crazy amount of sex with me.

Whatever the reason bottom line I do want her to feel zero pressure to do it. It is good right now but it is inevitable there will be dry periods where she is busy or not feeling to be physical and I need to have strategies in place (maybe) to make sure I am supportive of that and don't get moody.

And no I don't find it that hard to listen to her or pay her more attention. I actually enjoy it, I see her smile and being happy and I love that. She deserves nothing less she really is an amazing woman and I really badly want to make her feel great everyday. At the moment it's good but I am scared I will not maintain this or stuff it up. My biggest problem is doing these things isn't habitual to me right now. Whilst I enjoy it a lot I do have to remind myself to do it as it is so normal for me not to do it.

That's why I am here, writing helps keep all this stuff uppermost in my mind. So I dont; slack and slip back to being the inconsiderate selfish prick I was/am.

I gather you're quite the charmer, having what it takes to woo any woman you fancy, so for you there IS no "between relationships"!


Yes I am a charmer but I am getting older and I feel like all that stuff is just game playing. I am very happy with my relationship I can't imagine being with someone else I want to prove to her over the coming months I can make her happy then we can get married and have kids. Probably not a good idea to do any of that until these issues are sorted.

Sorry I know it was a bit rushed but again thanks a lot. This week is my birthday she is taking me away somewhere I bought some board games "Mr and Mrs" to help us get to know each other better and just have some fun. Something we just don't do enough of.

I guess that is my number one goal at the moment. Take more interest in her and her life. What's going on. Ask take interest, get to know her properly and make her feel that what is going on in her life is important to me. The opposite of how I normally am - always me me me, my life, my business, ongoing in my life, my parents, my sister, my my my.

Let's see how it goes. Thanks a lot.
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#6

Postby Leo Volont » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:57 am

Hi Again Jack,

I noticed that you and Candid have expanded away from Anger Management and are discussing relationships. Well, okay. May I join in? One point that I think needs making is that most people assume that Relationships are a good thing, and that when dealing with dysfunctional relationships the goal should be to patch up the wreckage and make the best of a bad bargain. You know how with Clinical Psychology the two big Cash Cows are Anger Management and Couples Counseling, so when the Anger Management Issues are settled for the session and there is still time on the clock, well, that's when you can ask about the Doctor's other field of expertise, and so I asked "Doctor, I know you must sometimes think that some couples are totally mismatched, or some patients just aren't cut out for relationships, but I've never heard of a Couples Counselor EVER advising a couple just to throw in the towel and call it quits before they both kill each other. Is that an Ethical Thing, or just Business Practice?" And he answered that, yes, it is about half and half Business practice and Ethics where the Profession has decided to ASSUME that the Couples ONLY WANTS to fix the Relationship and continue on with the Relationship and so the Doctors are not permitted to suggest any alternatives to that unless specifically asked to do so. They probably would even want the patients to sign a release before the Counselor could be free to Look At All Options. So are you looking at all options?

Also, I read of some Advice decades ago which was really common sense and so I remembered it. But it is not anything you see or hear all the time. The guy said that any time you get into a Relationship you should do a Reality Check about once a month and ask yourself if you are REALLY Happier than you were before. He warned that there are some weird factors involved like the 'Romantic Love" Bonding, which is at first quite euphoric, but then once that Euphoria goes on the wane, well, there would be the almost inevitable Addiction Reaction of trying to 'rekindle' the dying flame, and this is where couples start "Working On Their Relationship". But the Advise Guy said that "Does WORK sound like you are Happy?" If it takes WORK, well, what are you working FOR? The First Euphoric Bonding Love can never be repeated, no, not unless you find a NEW GIRL, right? Look at the high instance of Marital Affairs. People want LOVE... the Bonding Experience. Couples that remain together after the Initial Bonding Experience are just Roommates. You hear of Old Married Couples being "best friends", but, excuse me... Best Friends with some Frilly Female? Huh!? Look at your own situation where you are really uncomfortable with your girl friend and you frankly feel that the only reason you could possibly have for putting up with her being around is sexual privileges with her. yeah, that sounds wonderful. But, think of all the trouble you have to put up with just for sex. Ever hear the story Diogenes the Greek Philosopher on masturbation... yeah, I got this from Wikipedia: "On the indecency of his masturbating in public he would say, "If only it were as easy to banish hunger by rubbing my belly."[52]". Just think of all the crap you need to put up with for sex when all you have to do is effectively "rub your belly".

The Guy's 30 Day Evaluations Advise are intended to inform people that in most cases Relationships are continued on in the spirit of obsession or addiction and that the people are actually either anxious or miserable. Relationships are not making anybody happier, no, not after about six months. In Evolutionary Terms the 'Bonding" only needs to last long enough for the Man to help the Mother through her pregnancy. After that, she's on her own, and even she will be looking to Upgrade for the next man she wishes to entrap. Oh, yeah, Women are always looking to Upgrade. Men will screw anything that Presents before him, but Women Screw UP. Just watch the way your Girl Friend looks at guys with the Better Careers, the Better Suits, the Better Cars. Doesn't that make you ANGRY? You don't need to put up with it? Let her have them.

But, yeah, talking about your Anger -- that is not happiness. It indicates a life full of dissatisfactions and annoyances, frustrations, doesn't it? And much of it is regarding that needless Relationship. Also, as a For Instance, before I retired I knew some real Don Juans at Work and they knew exactly how far to go with a Relationship. They would use a kind of One Two Three Strikes Your Out Methodology, that is they would count off 3 times that their Girl Friend became 'Snippy" with them, Irritable, Criticize something Petty. Basically that was the Signal that "The Honeymoon was over". It wasn't their First Rodeo's and whatever their Bonding Feeling had been, well, they would still be polite when meeting these women socially, but DATING was now OVER. Always move in to a Chick's Place because it makes it easier to leave (try kicking a Chick out of your apartment... that can get ugly), yeah, all you have to do is say "Honey, I gotta go to the corner and buy a pack of smokes", and just not come back. When the phone call comes just give her the old "It's Not You, It's Me" speech.

One guy I knew would go down into Mexico and find a new Girl Friend and tell her Father and Brothers that no matter what happened "Maria" or "Rose" or whoever would come out of it with a College Degree. Then back to the North Side of the border to an Idyllic Life of Perpetual Happiness... until the 3rd Strike, and then, heck, his name was "Jack" also, yeah, Jack would tell her "Hey, it's time we talked about your future" and he would spread a fan of College and Prep School Brochures in front of her... yeah, he'd keep up his end of the bargain, but he'd already be planning his next excursion South of the Border for the next Rose or Maria.

Also, when I was a little kid, there was this kind of Little Boy Ethos where we took pride in "Not Playing With the Girls". Masculine Little Boy Concerns were Higher and Nobler than that Playing with Dolls Girlie Bullcrap. And I always thought it really odd that just because Puberty came along all the Guys would find excuses to renounce that "Manly" Ideal, even if it was just envisioned by Boys, but Boys ASPIRING to be MEN in the most Idealized Sense. Jack, what does it do to your DIGNITY to have to "Work on your Relationship" just to keep some "Girl" happy, and happy at your expense? I was once married and I would never do it again. To minimize tension one must always be surrendering and giving in, concession after concession and YOUR LIFE is slowly eroded away. When I finally got a divorce, after just 6 six years, I really had to do an entire rebuild. All my old interests had been allowed to go dormant. Books, records, musical instruments, guns... rebuilding a life can be expensive. If I KNEW that a relationship, a LOVING relationship, could be so devastating I would never have considered it.

So, Jack, you really need to consider whether your assumptions in regards to your "problem" and what it will take to REALLY make thing better, are the correct assumptions. As they say on the Business End of Town, it is almost always better to "Cut your Losses than to Throw Good Money After Bad".

Then from the Anger Management Standpoint, well, there is something WE CAN NEVER REPAIR even if we do manage to turn our lives around and become Peaceful and Controlled, and that is our REPUTATIONS. People who have known us when we've Blown Up will always be wary of us. We will never be trusted. Honestly, I advise people to find new jobs or find a new town. New Friends. Start Fresh. Jack, it may have been YOUR Fault, sure, but after you BLOW UP with a Girl Friend and Go All Ape Schitt, then, from that moment on, SHE becomes just so much DAMAGED GOODS. The Starry Look in her eyes will be gone forever. and she will start going to Meetings about Domestic Violence and she'll have 911 on her Speed Dial. Yeah, sorry, but when you got Angry YOU BROKE HER and there is nothing you can do to ever fix her. You can fix yourself but she is HOPELESS. Ooops! Sorry About That, but what else can you do? You Don't Want To Live With It, do you? Nobody is THAT Sorry! And, remember, she had her eyes wide open when she started seeing you. She should have sensed the Bad Boy in you, right? Yeah, so don't worry too much. She'll land on her feet, won't she?

Also, I learned in Psych 101 that Guys will screw any woman that 'presents' but women are always trying to Screw UP, that is to improve on the last Guy they had. Remember that Bonding for "Love" only is meant to last through a sigle pregnancy.
Then it is NATURAL for a Woman to look for a Better Father for her next pregnancy. Just closely watch your Girl Friend when you go out. See how she looks at the guys in the Better Suit, driving the Better Car, with the Better Career. Yeah, doesn't that make you feel angry? Well, don't be angry. Let her have them. You had your fun, now let her have hers. If you want to be happy then Find the Next Girl. Sharks 'drown' if they rest still in the water, and they need to keep their gils moving forward. So, Jack, keep moving. Women are great but remember the 3 Strikes Rule.
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#7

Postby Candid » Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:04 am

Hi again, Jack.

This is the trouble with writing on a psych forum instead of talking face-to-face: there simply isn't time to say everything, or to give people a clear picture of yourself. So if I appear to be picking holes in your posts or your sexual philosophy, it's because all your nice-guy qualities don't need commenting on. So here goes:

jack_j wrote:If I don't have a partner in front of me I don't have the issues in front of me so it is out of sight out of mind.

You're a decent, attractive man. You can always find a partner to have sex with. But what if you were NOT so attractive? You'd be surprised how many men find themselves in court with a lawyer saying things like "she was wearing a top with a plunging neckline" or "he hadn't had sex for nine days and there she was, so..."

See where I'm going with this? As long as your partner's mere presence means you "need" sex once or twice a week, and she knows it, what should be intimacy ends up being duty.

The issues I have are in part a symptom of being in a relationship. Along with my own personal issues which you highlighted before.

I think the two are so closely intertwined as to be inseparable. To my way of thinking the primary purpose of adult relationships is to heal ourselves of childhood wounding. Making babies may or may not come later. For some couples there IS no childhood wounding. More often than not, however, both partners have at least some 'stuff' they need to work out.

I have got better over time but only recently in the last few weeks am I actually talking to her. Having conversations about her. Her life. Until now it was me me me. My life, My fitness, my this my business my that.

I barely asked her anything noir did I listen. Now I am talking to her, listening, paying more attention to her. Maybe that's why she is suddenly having a crazy amount of sex with me.

Now you get the gold star of relationship. What was your problem again?

My biggest problem is doing these things isn't habitual to me right now.

Habits are just something we do all the time and which we find rewarding, which is what's going on for you now. I doubt you'll slip back for long, and if you do, so what? Making up reinforces the idea that no matter how much yelling (or silent treatment) goes on, no one's leaving.

... then we can get married and have kids. Probably not a good idea to do any of that until these issues are sorted.

Now it's platinum. 8)

You're all right, Jack.
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#8

Postby jack_j » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:18 am

Candid wrote:


See where I'm going with this? As long as your partner's mere presence means you "need" sex once or twice a week, and she knows it, what should be intimacy ends up being duty.


Thanks a lot Candid for replying. This made me take note.

You are absolutely right. I am working hard to create an environment where sex does not become duty.

It is hard work to undo a lot of the past 6 years of our relationship but day by day I am doing things to build her trust.

I am trying to be a lot more laid back about everything in general. This does appear to be helping her feel less pressure. I will keep checking in here as writing does help me a lot to remember not to get complacent.

Thanks, Jack
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#9

Postby jack_j » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:26 am

Leo Volont wrote:Hi Again Jack,

You had your fun, now let her have hers. If you want to be happy then Find the Next Girl. Sharks 'drown' if they rest still in the water, and they need to keep their gils moving forward. So, Jack, keep moving. Women are great but remember the 3 Strikes Rule.


Leo thanks a lot for writing. I have seen some of your YouTube videos and enjoyed them.

I was surprised to read your take on relationships. It probably is true in many circumstances but I don't think it is universally applicable.

It did sound to me that you are influenced by your own experiences of relationships which sound like they have left you a little scarred. I may be wrong but that is how it comes across.

I don't have time right now to comment on everything and to be honest I don't think it is going to help me much to debate a lot of it as I am committed to making things work with my partner and I don't want to try to start trying to find holes that aren't there on her side.

She has put up with a lot of crap from me, 100x more than anyone should ever have to. I feel strongly the majority if not all the repair work should come from my side I feel pretty lucky that she has even given me a chance given the crap I have put her through.

I do read your Anger Management stuff regularly in particular the stuff about being the most chilled out guy in the room.

That thought goes through my head at least 5-10 times a day now and is helping me immensely. Acting that way has yielded incredible gains in my relationship.

For now I am very motivated to keep working towards that goal of being the most chilled out guy in the room. Doing anything else seems counterproductive to me even though in practice I do end up deviating from it momentarily till I remind myself of it.

Thanks for all the stuff you have written I will continue to study it.

Jack.
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#10

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:25 am

jack_j wrote:
Leo Volont wrote:Hi Again Jack,

You had your fun, now let her have hers. If you want to be happy then Find the Next Girl. Sharks 'drown' if they rest still in the water, and they need to keep their gils moving forward. So, Jack, keep moving. Women are great but remember the 3 Strikes Rule.


Leo thanks a lot for writing. I have seen some of your YouTube videos and enjoyed them.

I was surprised to read your take on relationships. It probably is true in many circumstances but I don't think it is universally applicable.

It did sound to me that you are influenced by your own experiences of relationships which sound like they have left you a little scarred. I may be wrong but that is how it comes across.

I don't have time right now to comment on everything and to be honest I don't think it is going to help me much to debate a lot of it as I am committed to making things work with my partner and I don't want to try to start trying to find holes that aren't there on her side.

She has put up with a lot of crap from me, 100x more than anyone should ever have to. I feel strongly the majority if not all the repair work should come from my side I feel pretty lucky that she has even given me a chance given the crap I have put her through.

I do read your Anger Management stuff regularly in particular the stuff about being the most chilled out guy in the room.

That thought goes through my head at least 5-10 times a day now and is helping me immensely. Acting that way has yielded incredible gains in my relationship.

For now I am very motivated to keep working towards that goal of being the most chilled out guy in the room. Doing anything else seems counterproductive to me even though in practice I do end up deviating from it momentarily till I remind myself of it.

Thanks for all the stuff you have written I will continue to study it.

Jack.


Hi Jack,

Well, yeah, I presented the Worst First, to make the case that it is a serious mistake to bias yourself against what might be the most obvious fix for relationship problems. Like if you have problems with Drinking, well, DON'T DRINK. But I have actually had a lot of great relationships. But the best relationships never ended up with me having to be roommates. the old adage "Familiarity Breeds Contempt" packs a lot of wisdom. A lot of my relationships started out as dating and I ended up being mentored. You see, Women are generally more communicative than guys, and ease in communication is essential in Mentorship. So if I would find a sensible intelligent woman, and even if the dating stops, well, if intellectual or personal problems came up, and I ran into them socially, I'd bring it up in conversation and it could go on for hours later over drinks or with coffee. In college I would get into paper writing circles with the Girls and we'd do each other's editing and as much off the top of the head fact checking as was possible in those Pre-Internet Times. Also, I'm not shy and I can talk to Women without awkwardness, and during the height of the Sexual Revolution, well, I had no problem in regards to female companionship. But "moving in" and "marriage" are simply UNNATURAL. The only time that has come close to working historically is in cases where the Wife is also largely the Maid, and there is the clear understanding that the Husband is also the Boss, the Employer, and things can be terminated with just his word, the guy isn't there to take any crap. But even then the Influence of Women is insidious, and the Maid would take over and soon the Master's Chamber would have Pink Curtains. So, In any situation where the Woman would have any Rights and Dignity, well, there would need to be Separation, that is, Separate Quarters. It was never intended for men and women to RELAX, together, with the woman in a sweat suit, and the guy in underwear and dirty tee shirt farting on the sofa watching football and drinking beer. Man and Woman could only annoy each other. Look at where Culture has pointed the way. Men and Women have their own Rooms in a Large House and the only time Men and Woman come together they are Dressed for the Occassion... special cloths set aside for these encounters. Generally Meal Times and Tea. The short time span is always bearable. Even if there is tension, well, people can be on their best behavior for a couple of hours, right? Then when dinner parties break up into men smoking cigars and women in the parlor. Interactions are limited to keep things Short and Sweet. In both Chinese and Islamic Civilization there was the Institution of Harems, which were basically just Women's Quarters. In both Islam and in China it was a deplored sign of decadence and, well, sissy unmanliness for the man to spend much time in the Harem. Women were sent for. Men did not go to them. They'd lose Respect for it.

I forget whether I covered any of this in the more Political of my Videos, but the Modern Homes and the Way we now Live, well, it is 'unnatural', and is of recent invention (unless we are speaking about how impoverished people always lived...like animals). The Modern Single Nuclear Family Home is just the elaboration of the Breeding Stalls that the Factory Owners would keep for their Adult Workers. You see, if you look at the mortality and death records from the Industrial Revolution you will notice that they must have wanted to use up Child Labor before they could arrive at adulthood. Average Life Expectancy was 17 years old, or something like that. But the Survivors... Survival of the Fittest,... they would be given a little one room cottage... making couples get married to qualify. They were Breeding Stalls. The Factory Owners wanted more of the Labor they actually preferred --Child Labor. So, our Suburban Homes are simply well elaborated Breeding Stalls. If we wanted to live in Traditional Homes specified by the Highest Culture of our Civilizations then we would have Homes divided into Separate Quarters. Social Mixing would be regulated by customs and traditions. People were supposed to be on their Best Behavior, and this was not taxed by over-extension. Only Balls would go on all night, and then separation was built in by the use of Dance Cards. Yes, Civilizations and Culture, given enough time to be Wise, would come to understand that Men and Women were like Oil and Water.

Again, I always got along best with Women, and they got along best with me, when the interaction was either Task Oriented, or circumscribed to just a couple hours in a Diner or a Lounge. It is the Best Behavior Rule. and you can't LIVE with anybody and be on your best behavior.

I warn EVERYBODY in a "relationship" that all it takes is ONE INSULT that they can't take back, and a Relationship can be ruined. And when living together such an insult can come simply from Tired Irritability. I had been married. I had once called my wife "Sweetheart" and she said "Don't call me that. You're not my Father". That was it for me. I had no further use for her. I should have gotten the divorce then and saved a few year. And she probably doesn't even remember saying it. Living together CASUALLY is the death of Love.

but, yeah, thanks for taking a look at my Channel. My Blog Re-Write I'm working on now has been kicking my butt. But I poked around and did a little research, and I realized I would need to add something to the front end of the 3rd Part, but that would UNRAVEL my ending. Yeah, I have to wear Two Hats... One a Writer and the Other the Editor, and they need to be kept separate. The Editor REALLY Screwed over the Writer, but it seemed to work. The Ending that was so hard for the Writer to put together was really simplified as Part Three changed direction. But, here I am writing to YOU... I better get back to work.

Yeah, People think I am a Misogynist, but I actually prefer the company of Women. But the occasions need to be formalized and finite. Best Behavior expected on both sides. No man and woman can share a bed and a bathroom and still love each other. Not for long. If I ever fall in love again, at my age, we will need to both stay where we are. Saving Money to consolidate on expenses would be Relationship Suicide.
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