In Simple Terms: How does Schizophrenia Differ from Asperger

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:40 pm

Schizophrenia mostly starts around 19 -21 years of age. Despite that, it can begin in early childhood. In that case, it's referred to as "Childhood Schizophrenia". Symptoms are fearfulness, withdrawel, emotional unresponsiveness and auditory (or otherwise) hallucinations. In cases where Schizophrenia starts much later, some of those affected showed signs of mild autism and moodiness in childhood.

Asperger's is thought to start around aged three. It's recognised by motor clumsiness (useless at ball games). There is poor emotional intuition and connection to other people. There are major difficulties in group, class education. These children switch off and daydream in class. Yet, they develop obsessive interests in obscure subjects and are avid readers. They strive to keep their surroundings the same and follow fixed routines. They may have explosive outbursts.

How do you know if a child has Asperger's or Schizophrenia? The principal difference is that Asperger's remains stable in its symptoms. The problematic pattern remains constant. Yet, with Schizophrenia, there are "swings" where the symptoms intensify. Followed by further changes in behaviour. Often, the swings manifest outbreaks of fear and foreboding or hallucinations. For me, during childhood, it was audible sounds of breathing in the bedroom, or electrical humming. Hiding in cupboards or behind doors. Terrifying nightmares and floating sensations. Asperger's normally lacks "change" or sudden worsening of symptoms.

Another crucial point is that Schizophrenia changes and develops. Whereas fear and withdrawel defines the initial stages of Childhood Schizophrenia, much later in life the predominant mood is total apathy. There is weak, emotional response, couldn't care less, low motivation and physical activity. Whereas, Asperger's remains the same.

The big problem I have is both apply. Usually, Schizophrenics don't have motor clumsiness yet, if you were to neet me in person, straight away you would notice. Stiff, slow, cumbersome movements like Rain Man. I can"t catch a ball. Special interests also applied from childhood. Sensitivity to fabrics applied, as well as learning difficulties.

Really, the experts never fully agreed. Still, Schizophrenia can initiate in childhood and, if it does, it will differ from Schizophrenia that starts in later life.
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#1

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:52 pm

One feature of Schizophrenia is the tendency to draw wide associations between instances that others view with no connection. This is called "symbolism". It exists in normal thought processes but, in Schizophrenia, associations are wide. Often, the thoughts make no sense to others. Also, in Schizophrenia, thoughts jump and change in a way there's no direct line. Yet, the Schizophrenic sees some connection present.
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#2

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:02 pm

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#3

Postby davidbanner99@ » Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:19 pm

Celebrities and mental health. Interesting that John Nash felt the way to go was control and acceptance. Personally, I dislike the term "mental health" because that assumes we should always just "adjust" to whatever is considered "normal".

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zIH3SepDYXQ
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#4

Postby Candid » Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:22 am

Aspergers Syndrome does not involve psychosis.
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#5

Postby davidbanner99@ » Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:14 pm

Candid wrote:Aspergers Syndrome does not involve psychosis.


Neither does Schizophrenia. There is a term.called "sluggish Schizophrenia" which means it remains subdued. Many psychiatrists don't define Schizophrenia just by the psychotic symptoms. In fact, it was defined as a whole range of different syndromes. The Schizophrenic group.
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#6

Postby davidbanner99@ » Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:05 pm

Candid wrote:Aspergers Syndrome does not involve psychosis.


Only some psychologists assert Schizophrenia is a psychotic condition. I myself believe the essence of Schizophrenia is summarised by the "break" of cohesion in the emotional, cognitive functions.

One simp!e example is how many schizophrenics struggle to identify gender. They may sometimes feel feminine, as well as masculine. Two genders may struggle for dominance or co-exist. In more severe cases, the "other" personality might be heard as "voices" (because the personality split is so severe, part of the ego appears to be a third party). The subjects own thoughts bounce back as audible hallucination.

As seen below, Schizophrenia Simplex usually includes no psychotic symptoms.

My own view is, to understand Asperger's it's important to understand Schizophrenia.

"Simple-type schizophrenia is a sub-type of schizophrenia included in the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10), [1] in which it is classified as a mental and behaviour disorder.[2] It is not included in the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) or the upcoming ICD-11,[3] effective on the 1st of January 2022. [4] Simple-type schizophrenia is characterized by negative ("deficit") symptoms, such as avolition, apathy, anhedonia, reduced affect display, lack of initiative, lack of motivation, low activity; with absence of hallucinations or delusions of any kind."
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#7

Postby davidbanner99@ » Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:44 pm

I have my doubts whether complex diagnosis could be available today. I think in the 1960s and 70s, psychology was a very learned profession. The psychiatrists were highly paid. Most wore suits and had proper couches in offices for patients.
To diagnose a patient is tough. In the area of terminology, "autism" can mean different things. It can be a result of encephalitis or tuberculosis, it can be genetic or even follow trauma. This, I guess, is why psychiatrists used to make notes over months of consultation. Only after many sessions would a proposed diagnosis be suggested.
From my reading over a few days, I learned two different avenues of diagnosis evolved in the same time period. While Jung and Bleuler outlined Schizophrenia, Kretschmer described psychopathic conditions and personalities. Asperger, being Austrian, seems to have been led more by psychopathy. His own patients were called "autistic psychopaths". Asperger seemed to view Schizophrenia as a psychotic condition, although such isn't always the case.
Diagnosis can be very complex. As stated, in my own case, I totally relate to descriptions of Asperger's patients but also strongly relate to many symptoms of Schizophrenia. German psychiatrists such as Schneider believed you can have both simultaneously.
One problem too is clinical psychology seeks to group people into definitions as if all deviations are simply "illness". Yet, people like Tesla were pathological types yet very unique and creative. Moreover, clinical psychology ignored the fact many autistic or schizophrenic people sometimes became highly creative. Asperger was the only doctor to perform tests in this area.
Sometimes a case is clear cut. If you met someone who had been introverted in childhood, then suddenly started to hear voices around age 21, suffer paranoid delusions and general apathy - it's textbook Schizophrenia. However, it's sometimes far from being so clear cut. You need details of childhood illnesses, parenting, family medical profile, age symptoms began, if they intensified in cycles or were constant and stable.
It was said they stopped diagnosing Asperger's because psychologists had struggled with the guidelines. And yet, all pathological conditions pose a major challenge. It certainly needs several weeks of consultation.
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#8

Postby davidbanner99@ » Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:33 pm

Two types of views on autism:

(1) Bleuler's conception of autism, related to Schizophrenia. Example: A man gives a talk he delivers to a crowded audience. People yawn and get bored. Yet, the speaker somehow can't accept this stark reality and imagines the audience "must" be captivated. The desire to be accepted creates an inner, subjective but false reality. The bored expressions of the audience are somehow transformed in the speakers mind to reflect interest. It's a delusional reality. At a more serious level, the autist lives in his (or her) preferred reality and chooses that reality over apparent reality.

(2) Asperger Autism. Almost the opposite. In this case, the autist cannot take part in reality because he is unab!e to sense, interpret and connect to the feelings others rely upon to convey information. The total emotional blockade pushes this person away from assimilation of information. The autist is quite intelligent in the pure intellectual sense but his ability to relate to the surrounding world is choked off.
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#9

Postby davidbanner99@ » Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:43 pm

Some prolonged, nightime reading of late.
In the 1990s, there was a system to diagnose Asperger Syndrome. This involved one large consultation with a specialist, p!us members of family. Acquired anamneses and school background information. At that time, the consultation was serious enough but, these days, I have to view it as inadequate. Having now read so many differing opinions on diagnostic issues, I figure any diagnosis should be a matter of weeks, probably months. The complexity is formidable. Very often too, Asperger's is co-morbid with other neurological conditions.
What's the approach? I tend to think diagnosis remains an approximation. We can't predict how any neurological condition will unfold. You could take two people with the exact same condition but if both were raised in two differing family environments, or schools, the final outcome could represent another outcome entirely. They call that "exogenic" factors. That's the way stress can influence an ongoing disorder. I think in many cases, a stressful environment or abusive family background can create even greater complications than the actual neurological disorder.
There's a big weakness in therapy and an emphasis on diagnostic labels. In the USSR drugs were used widely to treat autistic conditions. In the 1980s it was what I was offered. The approach was hopeless. Patients need support and explanations. It also helps to know the symptoms experienced are not particularly alien. I suppose all of this may vary according to location.
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