Insomnia 4 months in

[biohack9]

I’ve read too many reports of paws sufferers experiencing the debilitating insomnia of paws withdrawals even over one month into recovery. I’m currently a week away from 4 months which is a personal record and uncharted territory for the past 15 years. I have had a history of insomnia since childhood due to trauma which I’m starting to feel I self medicated with now. I’m withdrawing from heavy concentrate and vape cart usage and although I had some minor improvements around month 3, it feels like my sleep is near the early stages again. Basically sleep for 2-4 hours and then wake up and can’t sleep for several hours, then have rem rebound waking dream sleep for maybe an hour and can’t function in the day.

I’ve heard it gets better for some around 5-9 months but others say the worst symptoms start around 6-9 months. I won’t be able to continue with this sleep for longer than maybe another several months if I don’t see any meaningful improvement.

So far the cons severely outweigh the pros of quitting. Especially after 4 months of this garbage.

[PAWnorama]

Hi biohack9,
I feel you with the insomnia, although mine might stem from another issue. My brain doesn't shut up when I want to sleep because of pesistant annoying earworms. But I've developed a couple of things that work for me, so maybe they help you too. Though most of them are also in other posts and maybe you have read or tried them already.
Anyway, exhaustion is key, if I had a good workout sleeping the next two nights comes easy. Good sleep hygene is also important and I don't mean clean sheets (but that helps aswell), it means the right temperature in the room, don't lay in bed before you really want to sleep and darken the room as much as possible. Additionally most nights I listen to an audio book, atm it's lord of the rings, where I don't mind if I miss a chapter or two.
And if all that fails I've gotten some melantonin pills which I try not to take that often, like once or twice a week. I tend to set myself a time around 2am, if I'm not asleep by then I will take one. They work rather well and I kind of know before if it will be a difficult night or not.

I wish you all the best and a good nights sleep

[biohack9]

Thank you, I’ve tried it all and actually any kind of exercise makes it even worse. Even long walks seems to affect me negatively. Lifting weights guarantees a horrible night especially since I find it difficult to fall asleep on those nights. I have that exact same ear worm issue!!! This makes it soooo difficult!

[PAWnorama]

Then give the audio books a try, it is by far the best thing to concentrate on something else.
But the earworms man...
Do you also have them during the day? For me it is petmanent for 5 months now... It's my last symptom 6 1/2 sober but a constant reminder. I've read that's a known and common symptom with benzo withdrawal but the time when this will pass differs from person to person. I feel like I linger too much on them and trigger myself over and over again.
Sometimes I'm not sure that it will pass but I have to believe!

[biohack9]

Yeah I do podcasts which get me through the night. When I feel myself drifting off I just turn it off and seem to get some light rem filled sleep.

I do get them during the day but nowhere as pronounced as at night. My mind just loops and I ruminate about past traumas. I may have issues that I was self medicating with but don’t know for certain since I’ve used cannabis for so damn long now.

I can’t believe you’re experiencing this so far into the process! Fortunately it’s your last symptom so that’s a positive! Hang in there and let’s just keep going.

[freedomfighter]

I am somewhat of an expert on sleep issues as I have suffered from them for decades. I used to think a good indica strain helped, but in the long run I think it made it worse. I have found that any problem that supposedly helped by THC is eventually made worse by the drug. I think that hi-jacking your endo-cannabinoid system is not the way to achieve homeostasis as there are natural ways to achieve this.

I have found sleep patterns got back to normal for me at the six month mark of cannabis cessation, but everybody is different. Most importantly for me is sleep hygiene, and have found these habits to really help my insomnia. Make your bedroom a sleep sanctuary, only use it for sleeping, no TVs or electronics, no eating in bed, leave your phone out of the room or at least 10 feet away and use an analog alarm clock. Make sure it’s dark and quiet(use a sleep mask and ear plugs if you have to), if you don’t fall asleep right away don’t dwell on that, stay in your sanctuary, keep your eyes closed and only think nice thoughts like fun things you like to do( hiking, biking, laying on the beach, your last vacation etc)

Good luck to you and I hope it gets better for you, keep up the good fight and think positively of all the good stuff that comes from not using weed.

[biohack9]

I agree that cannabis hijacks the ECS and causes an imbalance in homeostasis. However there are sometimes times where an endogenous substance is required. Also can’t underestimate the big elephant in the room that is artificial light and a lack of natural morning and daily sunlight impact on circadian rhythm in terms of lifestyle and sleep hygiene.

Check this out. It talks about how some of us might be screwed because of pre existing issues or just damage from long term chronic exposure. Sometimes full recovery just isn’t possible for some.

https://ascpjournal.biomedcentral.com/a ... 016-0056-7

[biohack9]

7.5 months later and sleep is even worse than month 3-4! Now it's harder to fall asleep, still waking up after 3-4 hours, and constantly dreaming and wake up exhausted and can't function/fatigued/low mood. Weed is the best sleep medicine in existence. Much respect to it over pharma chemical poisons (a road I will never ever go down again).

[desperate788]

Burned the night, drinking green tea.

[beaverseed]

Try to pray to Jesus sincerely mate. Nothing is impossible to God.

[DerJogge]

It’s simply PAWS. There is not much to say. Bad sleep/insomnia is a main symptom of PAWS and you can’t fight PAWS and make it go away with anything other than time. So please relax and give your brain the appropriate time to heal. I’m at 2.5 years of recovery and I’m still having addiction dreams from time to time and my sleep isn’t restful most of the time. Yet it’s getting better and if I don’t drink to much water in the evening I have no problems of sleeping 8 hours straight and falling asleep in like 2 minutes even if stressful things are happening in my life at that moment.

[biohack9]

Thanks DerJogge, it's likely PAWS, but insomnia goes all the way back to my childhood so it could also be underlying that I was treating myself with weed. Regardless, at 8 months now, I can't go 2.5 years and then still possibly need to wait it out even longer. I can't live like this, every since I quit 8 months ago my health has gone downhill, i've gained 25lbs now and was a lean ripped athlete before I quit. I have so many pains now and can't be active like I used to. In addition to these physical symptoms, my mental health is downright scary, and I wouldn't want to live like this for another year or two. Sometimes medicine that isn't pharma makes life much more enjoyable in mid-life. There are so many pros to cannabis, and all the problems people have with using it, I get without using it. This was all an experiment, and it is now complete. I wish you a speedy recovery to happiness and health.

[DerJogge]

There is no shortcut. If you start using again your symptoms will gradually become worse. If you started developing serious PAWS and just go back to consuming you will experience a lot of negative things even while consuming.

I know I have no say in other peoples life but at least consider to keep going mate. I know all your frustrations. Gaining weight, having bad sleep, feeling frustrated. That’s all part of the game becoming happy and healthy again. I gained about 20 pounds over the course of winter and I started a diet again an managed to loose about 8 pounds yet. I dislocated my left shoulder last year and now my right shoulder. I have to slowly work my self back to health. My father is a nursing case right since the start of PAWS as we were jogging and his aneurysm popped. I went through f***ing hell to get here and I still live. You can do that too buddy. There is no easy way. PAWS is the ultimate test. You don’t know how long this sh** takes. It could be over after 16 months. It doesn’t have to take 3 years like me. I was using amphetamines, cigarettes, a lot of alcohol, videogames, porn/Masturbation and Weed. That’s why it takes so long. Doesn’t mean you take that long.

You have to commit or you can go back to consuming and 6 months later you will find yourself back in a situation where there is no other option then quitting again. Trust me I’ve been there. And btw the first 12-14 months were the hardest for me. After that PAWS became manageable. My life ain’t to bad now. It’s mostly bad sleep/ fatigue/ DP/DR that is still lingering around.

Please buddy. Consider to keep going and give your brain the time to heal. I’m gonna post a citation from the weedpawsforum including the possible symptoms you can experience as it showed me how deep PAWS really goes and that all my symptoms are addiction related:

During Post-Acute Withdrawal you may experience a range of physical and psychological symptoms that may come and go in "waves". You may experience a wide range of random symptoms that could include; trouble sleeping, constant anxiety attacks, shortness of breath, muscle/joint pain, whole-body malaise, flu-like symptoms, chronic fatigue, weakness, nausea, loss of appetite, headaches, DP/DR (Depersonalization/Derealization), tunnel vision, tinnitus (ringing in ears), visual floaters, visual snow, heart palpitations or irregular heartbeats, increased heart rate, muscle tremors, depression, anhedonia, gastric issues, diarrhea, changes in bowel habits, stomach pain, and more. This list does not cover all possible symptoms.

Just keep going buddy…

[biohack9]

Hey thanks for the reply, I do appreciate your feedback and I remember reading about the situation with your dad and I empathize. My situation is a little different than yours and others, as I likely need to be on medicines for mental health issues, which I rather use weed for. If you are still having sleep and fatigue issues you may actually have some mental health issues of your own. There is a massive difference between abusing cannabis and using it therapeutically in place of pharmaceuticals. There are incredible health benefits to using cannabis with methods of harm reduction such as vaporization or edibles. It increases the quality of life for millions upon millions of people every day. Addiction is something else, but I know I can quit anytime I want to, and know what to expect now in the longer term. The last time I quit for 4 months and came back to it I lost the 20lbs I gained and regained my physical and mental health. I'm looking forward to a better life again. If I quit again, it will be forever like you, but i'm confident that won't happen knowing what I know now and how much it helps my quality of life.

[beaverseed]

Get regular exercise to overcome paws easily!