Street/Impromptu

Postby Hypnotac » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:22 am

Hi guys,

What are the main reasons why street/impromptu hypnosis might fail? What I mean by this is, if you have a subject capable of 'going under', why might a hypnotist fail in achieving hypnosis on a good subject? What would be the difference between someone who could achieve this and someone who doesn't?

Just an interesting subject I find, which other people new to hypnosis as well as myself may learn from.

Cheers guys :)
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#1

Postby hypnotherapylondonclinic » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:27 pm

Derren Brown did a great trick where someone was walking past a ringing public phone and they stopped to answer the phone, listened to a voice and promptly fell into a deep sleep.

It looks amazing and so powerful, you think what did he say on the phone to make that person fall so deeply into sleep.

There two things that make this trick work.
1 He needed someone to answer the phone who believed in hypnosis. By that I mean he needed a person who had a complete belief that a hypnotist could make them fall into a deep sleep by just telling them to do so. There is no need to convince this person at all about the power of hypnosis. If Derren said "my name is derren brown I am a master hypnotist and you have seen me on TV and i can give you suggestions over the phone that will make you go deep asleep when i count to three." If this person has heard of him and believes in his power then they are going to follow his instruction and fall asleep.

2 He needed to ring the phone hundreds of times before a true believer happened to be walking by, one who would answer it and follow his instruction and go into a deep sleep. This means that dozens and dozens of people may have answered before the believer got to the phone. And for them it did not work.

We only get to see the success never the failures.

So in answer to your question regarding why does it fail. It fails if the person doesn't believe in the power of the hypnotist or if the hypnotist doesn't believe in his/her self.
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#2

Postby Stevo74 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:01 am

or maybe...

3 They were Hypnotised previously, given a PHS of a single word spoken down the phone!
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#3

Postby hypnotherapylondonclinic » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:08 am

PHS would work too, good thinking.
The important thing to remember is that we never see the failures so it looks amazing. To be a good street hypnotist you have to be OK with failing because it must happen a lot.
I am a clinical hypnotherapist and meet many patients who want to be hypnotised but find it very difficult to go into a deep trance. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to march up to someone in the street and expect them to go into trance without any setting up or a PHS from an earlier meeting.
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#4

Postby ian groves » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:09 pm

i look at derren in a different way since learning hypnosis and as stated you only see what the editors want you to see and thats the power of television ,same as street magicians doing stricks you dont see the set ups ect .
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#5

Postby kevsheldrake » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:10 pm

hypnotherapylondonclinic wrote:The important thing to remember is that we never see the failures so it looks amazing.


I really don't think Derren films lots of failures to get one success. There are many more devious ways of achieving the effect.

hypnotherapylondonclinic wrote:To be a good street hypnotist you have to be OK with failing because it must happen a lot.


It's all in the approach and set up; it's possible to entertain with every performance.

At first a lot of people fail with the approach. Their words and body language don't get people interested. Next is the set up; failing to dispel myths can leave the potential subject concerned about the process which may affect how they follow your instructions.

The next place I see novices fail is with the set piece. If it is introduced as a test or as something the hypnotist is going to cause to happen, as opposed to something the hypnotist can show the subject how to do themselves, then it sometimes sets up a challenge situation where the subject believes their role is to resist the results of your suggestions. This can easily be rescued but it is easy to think it has failed instead and give up at that point.

The induction itself is another point of failure. The results of a bad set up can surface and cause them not to follow your instructions. More commonly, however, is that the induction goes well but the novice stops giving suggestions; this is usually because they are looking to see if it has worked (you can't tell) or because they forget what to say next. The induction is just a suggestion and you need to follow it with more suggestions.

The next opportunity for failure is when a suggestion fails to take. This could be because it was badly worded or delivered but it could equally be because the subject simply can't imagine that suggestion taking (or they don't experience it happening automatically, but that's another story). Often a novice will end the session there where a more experienced hypnotist will remain in mode and may go for the suggestion again or step back to phenomena that the subject has already attained but present it in a different way or as part of a different routine.

Our success rates are good. On our courses most students succeed on the Saturday night with a member of the public and they usually don't have to approach many people in order to make that happen.

Cheers

Kev
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#6

Postby Hypnotac » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:39 pm

hypnotherapylondonclinic, I get what your saying about the Derren Brown trick, however I think the PHS is probably a better suggestion as that would reduce 'failure' an awful lot.


Kev, much appreciated its nice to see how each area could fail and for the reasons why. However one thing that didn't quite make sense to me was when you were saying:
because the subject simply can't imagine that suggestion taking (or they don't experience it happening automatically, but that's another story).

I take it your referring to the AIM, which I haven't listened to yet. My question is when would anybody experience an automatic situation where there hand would be stuck whether it be to a table or head? same for hallucinations.

Cheers as always

Ben
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#7

Postby Hypnotac » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:44 pm

Also Kev,

You said its possible to entertain with every performance which I have no issues with, but if you went for an induction and it just wouldnt work or if a suggestion wouldnt take, how do you turn that into an entertaining situation?

Cheers

Ben
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#8

Postby hypnotherapylondonclinic » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:58 pm

kevsheldrake wrote:
hypnotherapylondonclinic wrote:The important thing to remember is that we never see the failures so it looks amazing.


I really don't think Derren films lots of failures to get one success. There are many more devious ways of achieving the effect.


Here is a video of how Derren flipped 10 heads in a row.
Search Youtube for Flipping 10 heads in a row: Full video

It shows us that Derren uses probability in a lot on his tricks and films all of the failures as he waits for the success.

Derren filmed and flipped coins for 9 hours until he got 10 heads in a row.
There is no camera trickery, It was just edited down so we only see the success. He uses this technique a lot and it seems like he is pulling off an amazing feat. But if you do anything long enough you will get it right at least once.
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#9

Postby Stevo74 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:21 pm

I've been to a couple of Derren's live shows and he's done some quick handshake shock inductions to audience members.
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#10

Postby hypnotherapylondonclinic » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:02 pm

Stevo74 wrote:I've been to a couple of Derren's live shows and he's done some quick handshake shock inductions to audience members.


Must have been amazing, he is a master showman.
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#11

Postby Stevo74 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:07 pm

I was always sceptical of fast 'cold' inductions on the internet and DVDs and how many were edited or were PHSs.
Seeing it done live by Mr Brown was magical...and to me, proof of the rapid stuff working.
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#12

Postby hypnotherapylondonclinic » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:14 pm

The power of expectation is a very effective aspect of hypnosis.
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#13

Postby PADDY O'GELLAR » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:47 am

Stevo74 wrote:Seeing it done live by Mr Brown was magical...and to me, proof of the rapid stuff working.


Further reading in "Confessions of a Conjuror " by D Brown will show you that he experimented and learnt hypnosis while a student. He used to practice on fellow students in his room.
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#14

Postby divrom » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:23 am

Excellent post, Kev.

kevsheldrake wrote:The next place I see novices fail is with the set piece. If it is introduced as a test or as something the hypnotist is going to cause to happen, as opposed to something the hypnotist can show the subject how to do themselves, then it sometimes sets up a challenge situation where the subject believes their role is to resist the results of your suggestions. This can easily be rescued but it is easy to think it has failed instead and give up at that point.

The induction itself is another point of failure. The results of a bad set up can surface and cause them not to follow your instructions. More commonly, however, is that the induction goes well but the novice stops giving suggestions; this is usually because they are looking to see if it has worked (you can't tell) or because they forget what to say next. The induction is just a suggestion and you need to follow it with more suggestions.

The next opportunity for failure is when a suggestion fails to take. This could be because it was badly worded or delivered but it could equally be because the subject simply can't imagine that suggestion taking (or they don't experience it happening automatically, but that's another story). Often a novice will end the session there where a more experienced hypnotist will remain in mode and may go for the suggestion again or step back to phenomena that the subject has already attained but present it in a different way or as part of a different routine.
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