A theroy by Georg Cantor might have ruined my life.

#195

Postby Tailspin » Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:28 pm

That sounds like it not only supporting this theory but asking me to accept it.
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#196

Postby Tailspin » Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:40 pm

Why won't anyone here talk about the theory itself?
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#197

Postby ColdFudge » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:45 am

Hi. :)

I'm new to this forum, so I hope it's okay to answer now- I read your topic a while ago... I'd PM, but I don't think I can because I'm new.

I believe, by what you wrote in your first post, that the theory may be wrong. (or at least, your father's interpretation of it is wrong)

But just to be sure, can you refer me to the actual theory?
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#198

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:08 am

Tailspin wrote:Why won't anyone here talk about the theory itself?


People have talked about the theory, PLENTY of times. The better question, what is stopping you from listening?

Two posts ago someone asked you a question to clarify something about the theory, reference replications. Why do you ignore them? Why do you pretend they are not discussing the theory?
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#199

Postby Bored » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:24 pm

The theory is very wrong lol.

"If you could only put one letter in a book you would have a maximum 26 different possible books."

Firstly, lets analyze the fact that even if all books had a finite number of pages, you could create much more than 26 possible books using only one letter. How you may ask? Punctuation. By adding commas and/or periods, you can completely alter the meaning of the book. Think about it mathematically. For 26 possibilities using only one letter, you would need a MAXIMUM of 26 letters. Ex:
a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a.
a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a, a.
a a a a a a a a a a a a a a. a a a a a a a a a a, a a.

etc. etc.

But you get the point. This wasn't even a book. Also, he put a definitive amount of pages on the word "book" which is also false and disproves his theory. I could simply keep adding an extra page of A's 26 times to create completely different books.
The point of his theory that is correct however is that:

"all books are made out of combinations of letters and words on a page so there must be a finite number of possible books that can be written."

However, with the amount of freedom that you have to write a novel - like the amount of pages and punctuation, the finite possibility if pretty infinite if you were to chug out a book even every single day. There is a reason why you can't read all the books in the world in a lifetime or even many. His use of the word finite attempts to belittle things like your profession, but at the end of the day, your life is also finite and it does not mean that it has no meaning.

His greatest psychological discouraging weapon was attempting to show to you how small this finite number really is. You can truly reach your creative potential throughout your entire lifetime and create enough novels even with something finite.

Finite ≠ Not enough for creativity

There is also a finite number of letters in the English language. This did not deter you from falling in love with it in the first place. The fact that you have a finite number of words and ideas to work with is what it makes it an art. It is a way to show your true feeling, thoughts, and ideas on paper through the use of this limited toolkit that is the English language.

If it was infinite, it would not be an art.
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#200

Postby ColdFudge » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:27 am

Also, by what the father said, numbers should be finite too, because they are made of a set of finite digits (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0) , and of course numbers are infinite.

And Bored, I just want to point out that real life books don't work like the books in the theory, at all.
So it's interesting to say "even if they did" (it is, I didn't think of your example before!), but let's really make it clear first that they don't.

TailSpin, the argument your father gave to back up this theory is invalid. Finite set of letters doesn't equal finite set of books\ stories. Also books don't behave like the theory's imaginary books do, so it's wrong to compare it this way.
Ways to store information (like stories) will exist as long humanity (or other intelligent beings) exist. Even by our own memory\ recycling of old materials.

I suspect this theory is right and all, when it applies to very specific math conditions that don't exist in this case (finite set of groups, finite room per each group to store supposedly infinite information)
So this theory maybe not even meant for books\ stories\ ideas.

I have no idea what the actual theory is , but my guess is that your father\ his friends made a lousy connection between the theory and ideas... (people love to do it- it doesn't matter how smart they are, they always make stupid comparisons at some point in their lives)
If you find out later the initial thing your father said was wrong- I hope that you will feel better :)

Of course, maybe your father did make the right connection between that theory and stories/books... That's why I want to know what the real theory is about.

By the way, it reminds me of a paradox of Achilles and the Tortoise.
They've proven (with math) that Achilles can never pass the Tortoise. But it still was wrong, because they didn't take everything into account... it could be certainly right in some specific mathematical cases, but didn't apply to real life...
Anyway... for the third time... dying to know what the real, actual theory is about :)
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#201

Postby Pippi » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:21 pm

Hey dude, as a fellow creative I can empathize - I also want my ideas to seem like 'mine' and not be a pre-existing idea that I just managed to piece it together. I want to draw your focus away from whether this theory is true or not, I want to give you another way of looking at it:

Ask yourself this: "If the words came to me, and I put them together as a book, and MY book was able to help people or bring laughter or passion or make someone's day with an impressive ending, would that not be enough reward for all of my hard work?" You worked hard to put the book together and even though the words may have already been in our universe, was it not your creative mind that came up with the idea, the plot, the ending etc? The initial idea was created in YOUR mind, so you can claim the ideas :)

It may be that writing is a part of your life journey and it would be such a shame to deprive the world of your creativity!

I recently became highly in-tune with my creative side and it has pulled me out of the depression I was in! When I was growing up, due to bullying, I was deprived of my creative outlets which lead to endless frustration and self-destruction. So if I can ask anything of you - please don't give up! Your creativity will not only help with your book, but use it to creatively and consciously solve the problems you are facing with depression and life. Most people peg creativity in the physical world but I like to explore creative thinking to combat life's problems that come along.

Another thing you may want to explore is that it may be worth analyzing why this Universal theory has disheartened you so much and not focus on the theory itself. Is there anything else that may be hiding behind this theory that is causing a creative block? Just something to ponder over.

I really hope you get to writing your book, or if that is too damaged an area for you then look for an alternative creative outlet to lift your spirits again.

Please don't turn your back on creativity! I believe it has a massive part to play in the happiness of the human race.

I hope you can find peace with this, the choice is yours.

Be strong,
Pippi
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#202

Postby Tailspin » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:25 pm

ColdFudge wrote:Hi. :)

I'm new to this forum, so I hope it's okay to answer now- I read your topic a while ago... I'd PM, but I don't think I can because I'm new.

I believe, by what you wrote in your first post, that the theory may be wrong. (or at least, your father's interpretation of it is wrong)

But just to be sure, can you refer me to the actual theory?


I can't, my Father won't tell me what it's called as he refuses to disscuss it. And I can't find any trace of it anywhere as I don't know what it's called.
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#203

Postby Tailspin » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:00 pm

Pippi, you just told me that the theory doen't matter.

IT DOES MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You say, either way, that it should not effect my love of creativity.

IF IT'S TRUE THEN MY LOVE OF CREATIVITY IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You people want to help me?

PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#204

Postby coffeelove3 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:18 pm

Hello Tailspin

First off I want to say I absolutely how much passion you feel over this- I am also a lover of the arts and that is with everything ...drawing/painting/music/literature/dance....
My first love is with drawing*

I had never heard of this theory before, But a theory NON-the-less.
theories are not set in stone

And not everyone has creative talent...some have very little others truly blessed- and get to do their passions
for work- So to hear that you refuse to pursue this and stop... makes me very sad

painting and drawing is necessary for me like breathing is

With is theory- I refuse to believe that its true
just as there is only a set of letters and words there is a set or primary colors...still the combination and use is infinite

maybe people many years from now could produce similar ideas or stories-but they will never be equal

example: The Little Mermaid by Hans Christian Anderson-
How he tells the story of the little mermaid and her love that could never be with the prince.. it takes you to a place where you yourself have lost love or someone special. There are many great books that take you away into their made up land and its like an escape from the world...wonderful. The characters turn into real people and you feel for them or make you reflect on your own life.
Can just anyone do this-NO
Can people come up with similar stories-sure..just like art pieces inspire others and songs inspire others that look or sound similar- BUT could never be just as great as the original.

I say tell your dad to shut up

and Do Not Stop Creating

EVER!!!
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#205

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:54 am

Tailspin wrote:You people want to help me?

PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE! PROVE TO ME THE THEORY IS NOT...TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Very mature. Have you considered your lack of maturity might be a barrier to accepting the limitations of the theory, a barrier for listening to others? Maybe if/when you gain maturity, you will be able to be more receptive to some of the ideas others have presented to help you.

Throwing yourself on the ground like a child, kicking and screaming, throwing a tantrum, "PROVE TO ME!!!!...." Is simply emotional ignorance on your part. Grow up.

P.S. by definition a theory is not true.
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#206

Postby Tailspin » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:38 pm

I don't know what to do any more.

I've said all I can on this matter, I've asked everyone I can, listened to the same advice over and over and still I feel the same. I feel like there's nothing left to do to help myself.
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#207

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:42 pm

Tailspin wrote:I don't know what to do any more.

I've said all I can on this matter, I've asked everyone I can, listened to the same advice over and over and still I feel the same. I feel like there's nothing left to do to help myself.


You are not listening. Look at your post before this one. Is a child listening when they throw a tantrum and scream they want the toy they want? The child doesn't understand why they can't have the toy. You lack the maturity, the wisdom to see past this very narrow view to which you desperately cling. Go out into the world, gain wisdom, read some other books, get a broad education, both formal and informal, then revisit this theory.
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#208

Postby Tailspin » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:03 pm

I am not uneducated if that's what you are saying.

I supose I have long put scientists on a very high pedistal. They are the uncoverers and pronoucers of truth. I can't aruge with them becuase I am not a scientist. And in my opinion, the only person who has any authority to challenge a scientist is another scientist.

My therapist says that my problem is that, I have a strong tendancy to see things in black and white, everything is either right or wrong, true or false. He says that what I need to do, is see that this theory is somewhere between the two. I.E, it make logical sense and works out on paper but in real life it's compleatly unrealistic.

By the way, what books do you think I should read? When this first started years ago, somone said it had been disproven in "The uiniverse in a nutshell" but I'm scared to read it in case that person was mistaken. Also that book might talk about the end of the uiniverse, which is somthing else that gets to me.
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#209

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:15 pm

Tailspin wrote:My therapist says that my problem is that, I have a strong tendancy to see things in black and white, everything is either right or wrong, true or false.

By the way, what books do you think I should read? When this first started years ago, somone said it had been disproven in "The uiniverse in a nutshell" but I'm scared to read it in case that person was mistaken. Also that book might talk about the end of the uiniverse, which is somthing else that gets to me.


I'm not saying you are uneducated, I'm saying you lack maturity. A nicer way to say it is that you lack wisdom. Examples, you wrote above. Seeing things in black and white, being afraid to read a book, both evidence you lack maturity.

I would recommend you read books unrelated to the theory. Read a cross-section of history, psychology, finance, classic literature, philosophy, etc. You lack breadth of knowledge, only focusing on this one issue. When you read a cross-section of books you will be able to pull things you learned from one area and apply it to another.
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