Let me tell why Suicide is a Bad Idea

#15

Postby kyrani99 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:13 pm

AIDT wrote:Depression, Makes people out of their mind and some time, people attempt for suicide.


From what I have seen there are two types of depressions.
One is natural. A serious loss of some sort will need time to overcome.
The other is not natural and involves a cheat. It is too much to explain here but you can read my second post on this page (the 4th post down the page) viewtopic.php?f=19&t=92669&p=833960#p833960

When a person understands the sort of things that are done by toxic people they can walk out of the problem and maintain their bliss. It is a question of challenging the ideas and realizing that the accompanying emotions or bodily reactivity are unrelated to the ideas.

Toxic people (which may well be within the family or seeming trustworthy friends or work associates) often use a person's loss to try and cause them suffering and there by get their pleasure (i.e., narcissistic supply).
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#16

Postby Jim1 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:01 pm

kyrani99 wrote:
Jim1 wrote:And there's the issue of the damage that does to a family. If the parents are still alive, they would almost certainly be completely devastated by this.


You are assuming that the family/ parents are decent people. Maybe they are but maybe they are psychopathic/ toxic / evil. Some of them may be the offenders. So helping a person overcome the hatred that they may be suffering is in their best interests.


Hi Kyrani,

You're right that, in some cases, the parents can be the problem. But I had a classmate in high school who killed himself and it just absolutely devastated his parents. I believe that if he had to do it all over again(knowing the effect on them), he wouldn't have. So now I always advise anyone considering suicide to take that into consideration.
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#17

Postby kyrani99 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:55 am

Jim1 wrote:
Hi Kyrani,

You're right that, in some cases, the parents can be the problem. But I had a classmate in high school who killed himself and it just absolutely devastated his parents. I believe that if he had to do it all over again(knowing the effect on them), he wouldn't have. So now I always advise anyone considering suicide to take that into consideration.


Yes if the person's parents are decent then it is a consideration but you have to sus out first if this is the case. There is nothing worse than using this as an argument to someone who's parents are the perpetrators. It might drive them to suicide faster.

I've known a few people who have committed suicide and in both cases I can see that others were involved. The person was driven to suicide. It is important to raise awareness about how toxic people operate because that information is the critical information that can save the victim and give them their health and balance back.
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#18

Postby Jim1 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:34 pm

kyrani99 wrote:
Jim1 wrote:
Hi Kyrani,

You're right that, in some cases, the parents can be the problem. But I had a classmate in high school who killed himself and it just absolutely devastated his parents. I believe that if he had to do it all over again(knowing the effect on them), he wouldn't have. So now I always advise anyone considering suicide to take that into consideration.


Yes if the person's parents are decent then it is a consideration but you have to sus out first if this is the case. There is nothing worse than using this as an argument to someone who's parents are the perpetrators. It might drive them to suicide faster.

I've known a few people who have committed suicide and in both cases I can see that others were involved. The person was driven to suicide. It is important to raise awareness about how toxic people operate because that information is the critical information that can save the victim and give them their health and balance back.


Yeah I just try to say whatever I can to the person in that situation. Obviously you're right that in some cases that reasoning doesn't work. But still there's bound to be someone in the person's life who would be quite upset to hear that they had done that. Unless literally no one in the word gives a darn about this particular person, which is almost never the case by the way(even if the person thinks that it is). And certainly if raising their awareness about how toxic people operate can help to restore their health and balance then that's a very good thing. I know that with guys it can be as simple as their gf just broke up with them(I've known of guys who have killed themselves for just that reason alone).
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#19

Postby Candid » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:00 pm

Jim1 wrote: I know that with guys it can be as simple as their gf just broke up with them(I've known of guys who have killed themselves for just that reason alone).


That's surface stuff. It's not "that reason alone" -- it goes SO much deeper! A guy who kills himself over a romantic relationship gone sour has mommy issues. Mommy didn't love him, making him desperate for female validation. Another female rejects him... what is he living for?

This is important stuff, Jim. It shouldn't be deleted wherever it raises its ugly head.
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#20

Postby quietvoice » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:24 pm

Candid wrote:That's surface stuff. It's not "that reason alone" -- it goes SO much deeper! A guy who kills himself over a romantic relationship gone sour has mommy issues. Mommy didn't love him, making him desperate for female validation. Another female rejects him... what is he living for?

Candid,
Let me get this straight. You posted the above ideas and it was deleted? That doesn't make sense to me.

I have a close male friend (actually my best friend, met 19 months ago), who, on regular occasions, tells me about his wanting to off himself, either that or dying from his health problems. This morning he said he'll be dead in 72 hours. One time when he was feeling suicidal, he did say that he doesn't really want to die. He otherwise is a fun person to be around. He was adopted as a baby, and his adoptive mother was apparently a good mother. Do you think that this mother thing applies here?
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#21

Postby Jim1 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:38 pm

quietvoice wrote:
Candid wrote:That's surface stuff. It's not "that reason alone" -- it goes SO much deeper! A guy who kills himself over a romantic relationship gone sour has mommy issues. Mommy didn't love him, making him desperate for female validation. Another female rejects him... what is he living for?

Candid,
Let me get this straight. You posted the above ideas and it was deleted? That doesn't make sense to me.


Yeah, it was something else.
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#22

Postby quietvoice » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:40 pm

Jim1 wrote:Yeah, it was something else.

Oh, okay.
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#23

Postby Jim1 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:45 pm

Candid wrote:
Jim1 wrote: I know that with guys it can be as simple as their gf just broke up with them(I've known of guys who have killed themselves for just that reason alone).


That's surface stuff. It's not "that reason alone" -- it goes SO much deeper! A guy who kills himself over a romantic relationship gone sour has mommy issues. Mommy didn't love him, making him desperate for female validation. Another female rejects him... what is he living for?

This is important stuff, Jim. It shouldn't be deleted wherever it raises its ugly head.


Candid, I deleted your first post because you said that it makes you want to vomit when people give the kind of guidance that I had just said that I give. That's trying to bait an argument which is not allowed on here. And then I deleted the second one because you were openly questioning the first one and again trying to start an argument. Please debate reasonably and there won't be an issue. In the first case just say something like you respectfully disagree and then give your opinion. And I do think it's valid. Maybe there were other issues at play. All I know is that he killed himself and his gf had just broken up with him.
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#24

Postby Candid » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:43 pm

Jim1 wrote:Candid, I deleted your first post because you said that it makes you want to vomit when people give the kind of guidance that I had just said that I give. That's trying to bait an argument which is not allowed on here.


I wasn't trying to bait an argument. I was pointing out that thinking of people who would be upset doesn't hold water when those same people have diminished or ignored what the suicidal person has gone through. If just one person understands, there's no need to feel totally alone and unsupported in the world.

I also said that thinking about my own parents, ironically, was the reason I didn't carry out my plan. That I knew my mother would be relieved I was no longer around to talk about child abuse -- the very reason I'm still here. This was removed.

And then I deleted the second one because you were openly questioning the first one and again trying to start an argument. Please debate reasonably and there won't be an issue.


Since it's no longer here, I have no way of knowing what you objected to. Obviously I disagree with the idea that someone about to end his/her life should be thinking of everyone else. It's just so rock-bottom, and while those people we're supposed to be considerate of may be troubled by our distress, they're also concerned about their jobs, the new conservatory they're having built, the partner's drinking or gambling... whatever.

All I know is that he killed himself and his gf had just broken up with him.


People always look at the last thing that went wrong. A cat died, there was a car repair bill he couldn't pay, whatever. I say that anyone driven to suicide has a whole life history of things going wrong -- things that could easily be seen in perspective if s/he had just one person with the capacity to acknowledge that they weren't inoculated against stressors major and minor by competent and loving caregivers.

Attachment, the emotional bond formed between an infant and its primary caretaker, profoundly influences both the structure and function of the developing infant's brain. Failed attachment, whether caused by abuse, neglect or emotional unavailability on the part of the caretaker, can negatively impact brain structure and function, causing developmental or relational trauma. Early-life trauma affects future self-esteem, social awareness, ability to learn and physical health.
~ http://www.healingresources.info/trauma ... orders.htm


Let's please not underestimate what suicide is, because I think you'll agree it's a drastic 'solution'. It's never about the cat dying. It's more of the last straw when people have no self-love whatsoever, and that can only come from the way they were taught to think about themselves. It's too much to ask that at the point of slashing their wrists they should be ashamed of the effect they're having on the people who taught them to feel this way.
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#25

Postby Jim1 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:50 pm

Candid wrote:Let's please not underestimate what suicide is, because I think you'll agree it's a drastic 'solution'. It's never about the cat dying. It's more of the last straw when people have no self-love whatsoever, and that can only come from the way they were taught to think about themselves. It's too much to ask that at the point of slashing their wrists they should be ashamed of the effect they're having on the people who taught them to feel this way.


Yes I would agree that it's a drastic 'solution,' absolutely. And again that's why I try to say whatever might get through to them right then. And I'll continue to do that on here. Sometimes it does work. Just recently on here I brought that up and the person responded with, you're right I couldn't do that to him(talking about the person's father). I'll try and find that thread if you want. But yes again I agree with your points as well. There is usually more than one cause, and it takes time to work through those issues. Believe me I've seen you be a real help to many people on here.
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#26

Postby MakeorBrake » Wed May 20, 2015 12:35 am

These sugary platitudes are the reason I don't usually join sites like these.

Life can be painful. Sometimes the solutions can be simple but out of reach. I've never understood the point of forcing people to stay alive just for the sake of it.

If someone does that to an animal, they can be locked up for it, yet we do it to humans.
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