I want to kill someone.

#15

Postby JeremyH » Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:03 pm

Who doesn't want to kill someone... sometimes everyone, but normal people will never do that. YOu should to talk with doctor because life institiution should be a holiness for other people.
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#16

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:50 pm

JeremyH wrote:Who doesn't want to kill someone?


Wow! Jeremy. Do you really think that Everybody wants to kill someone?

My experience with non- homicidal people is that they are more attuned to the “eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” ethic, and they only want to get, well, ‘even’. Killing somebody goes way beyond ‘even’, well, unless other bodies are involved, and that is, well, very drastic and should call for bringing the police in on the matter, that is if we are in a Civilized country that has, well, Civilized Police. But in all other circumstances, where nobody else is dead, well, nobody else deserves to die. That is exactly how most civilized people think.

So, no, fantasies of Murder are WAY over the top for ‘normal people’.

So your advice for people who to contemplate homicide against people who had merely offended them socially, or ripped them off economically, well, it should be to have these people turn themselves in for Institutionalization. If people get things SO out of proportion, well, they are simply too much of a danger to have in a viable and thriving society.
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#17

Postby JuliusFawcett » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:48 pm

I am a pacifist, I don't want to kill anyone
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#18

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:09 am

JuliusFawcett wrote:I am a pacifist, I don't want to kill anyone



Hi Julius,

Your answer is a bit puzzling. Are you a pacifist because of Moral Principles, or merely because you feel disinclined to kill anybody. if you are a pacifist from Moral Principle, then we could perhaps be more certain that you would stay a pacifist on the long term. But if you are only a Pacifist because you feel disinclined at the moment in regards to killing anybody, well that could all change in a second once you thought you had a reasonable motive to kill.

This kind of Confusion is indeed gripping our entire society. Morals went out of style the same time that religion did, and now people only behave well when it suits them to, and there is scarcely nothing that people won't do if they believe they won't get caught.

And if you DO have moral principles, well, you are Playing the Game following rules and staying within boundaries that everyone else feels free to ignore, and so if there is anything a Man of Principle should count on, well, that is that he will end up life as a Loser. "Nice guys finish last".

But I am sure I am preaching to the choir here...
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#19

Postby JuliusFawcett » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:28 am

nice guys keep their liberty
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#20

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:05 pm

JuliusFawcett wrote:nice guys keep their liberty


what history books have you been reading?

The bulk of History is about nice undeserving people coming to doom, and primarily from the machinations of greedy, power-hungry and selfish people who put some diabolical plan into play, which, more times than not, didn't even work out well for themselves. The only Liberty some people had was to commit suicide instead of waiting for an inevitable and painful end. Is THAT what you mean by Liberty. Well, you would make a great French Existentialist... well, I would caution against it... the occupational hazard of being a French Existentialist is, well, they nearly all die early deaths, and that, at their own hands. It seems that is the only way they have decided they can truly exercise their Free Will.
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#21

Postby JuliusFawcett » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:48 pm

The ten commandments

Thou shalt not kill

Liberty is a state of mind, a clean conscience is kept by being nice
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#22

Postby Leo Volont » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:56 am

JuliusFawcett wrote:The ten commandments

Thou shalt not kill

Liberty is a state of mind, a clean conscience is kept by being nice


Well, God Bless you then.

But you should be knocking on wood, shouldn't you?

You seem to be boasting that no matter how hard Life gets -- Poverty, Pain, Persecution, Abandonment, Disease -- that you will be able to shrug all of that off and still feel perfectly at Liberty.

Well, Liberty is a vague word. And especially here on this Site there is such a peculiar way that people define the words they use that one can hardly be sure what they mean. And Liberty is such a French Word. It’s taken on the meaning of having the Right to do whatever one wants, particularly in regards to livelihood and making money. But that seems kind of tawdry, doesn’t it. People usually use the word Freedom nowadays because it sounds less cheap and material. But, as I said, one can only wonder what you might mean by the word ‘liberty’. But it seems like some word indicating some strict and absolute principle for you.

And what you say does seem drastically fixed in Principles -- sort of Absolute Principles with no wiggle room at all.

and I wonder whether Anybody can live up to the Most Ideal Principles when Life comes at us with its Absolute Worse.

I hope you are never tested. I hope you can go on with your comfortable life without ever having to prove just exactly how much you really can tolerate.

and they are just Principles. Everyone has Principles. We all Know the difference between Right and Wrong, in the Western Cultural Sense anyway, as Right and Wrong varies between Cultures), but Knowing and Doing are different things entirely.

When put to the Test, many of us Do what we wouldn't want to Say.... you know, when Doing seems to be Necessary for Survival. We still Know the difference between Right and Wrong, but we compartmentalize off to the side, while we do what we feel we have to do. And sooner or later certain circumstances could push any of us to that point of ‘compartmentalizing’ our Principles to clear the way for some Saving Action. And I can't imagine that you are really all that different from everybody else. I am thinking back on everything you have posted and I am wondering, 'is there the mark here of somebody truly exceptional', and, no, I can't find anything that makes you significantly better than the rest of us. Of course, no insult intended, if you really did have your heart set on being better than all the rest of us. If such is the case, then rest satisfied that I myself simply don't have the superior standing necessary to even recognize a Truly Superior Being such as yourself… blah, blah, blah. You know, as they say in the "Happiness Training" Business... "whatever makes you happy".
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#23

Postby JuliusFawcett » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:28 am

I am no better than anyone.

Liberty is a feeling, a sense of freedom and it is all in the mind.

I am a pacifist, I have been tested by people who threatened to kill me on different occasions. I closed my eyes, held my arms to my side and said "I will not fight back", I am still here to tell the tale.

I trust my karma. Pacifism is a powerful discipline, once chosen it is very important to be charming lol
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#24

Postby Leo Volont » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:53 pm

Hi Julius,

Okay, here’s a hypothetical situation for you. Let’s say that the Economy Collapses and the police are no longer going to work... and the only police you see are using their guns to go into business for themselves. You hear that the People Across the River have decided they need more Territory and are launching attacks against Your Side of the River. They do not want to just ‘enslave’ you or force their political system on you, no, they want to kill you to get rid of you so they can take your land and property and to keep you from eating precious food, which has grown very scarce. Your 'friends' Beg You' to join the Resistance, and they are willing to give you a gun and teach you how to point and shoot. If you don't help, there is a very good chance you will all be slaughtered by the evenings end.

There's the situation. Are your principles still holding out? Are you still turning the other cheek even while your friends believe you are betraying their cause and siding with those who are murdering them?

You said you believe in the Ten Commandments. Well, those are from the Hebrews. Are Hebrews the Same as Israel? Well, I guess so. Anyway, who kills more people than Israel? When Israel makes its Gaza Strip Incursions, they bomb and grenade every door and window, without first looking inside to see who they are killing -- that would be too risky. They could wait for audio and heat detecting equipment to can for living bodies, but that would take too long and these Military Incursions must run on Schedule. So you see, even the people who Gave Us the Ten Commandments find it easy enough to Compartmentalize them away for safe keeping, and for sheer convenience, when it is easier just to Kill Kill Kill. I am not saying that they are right. I am saying that in standing on Principle, you seem to be standing alone all by yourself.

Oh, even Gandhi really didn't believe any of it. I met a Professor in India who had been a lad in prison with Gandhi during the War (the British kept the unreliables locked up). He was pestering Gandhi about his Virtues and Ideals and Gandhi finally got sick of it. He told the lad that he, above all else, was a Lawyer, and that the British Laws on Sedition were quite specific and clear, that one had to intentionally and deliberately condone Violence by act or deed to be guilty of such a crime. So Gandhi, before every Riot he orchestrated, would give a pretty speech about Non-Violence, knowing full well that the Situation would never play out that way. Martin Luther King used the same trick... presiding over the most destructive riots in American History while preaching peace and love.

It must be nice to know that you are probably much better than all of the people who had been your Ideals.
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#25

Postby JuliusFawcett » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:34 pm

Our imaginations are powerful places, look around you, all the things that you see were once in someones imagination, if we can dream it and believe it, we can achieve it.

For this reason I do not imagine nightmare fantasies, I use my imagination to create a beautiful vision of my future for myself and everyone else and then I move towards it, one thought at a time, one step at a time.

I repeat, I am no better than anyone, I am just being the best version of myself that I can be, as we all are.
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#26

Postby Leo Volont » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:24 am

JuliusFawcett wrote:Our imaginations are powerful places, look around you, all the things that you see were once in someone’s imagination, if we can dream it and believe it, we can achieve it.


yes, if you dream of nothing much more complicated than a Lemon Aid Stand, but anything of Size, Scale and Complexity would take Social and Economic Support Systems, which aren't available to everybody. Also, even when you DO come up with something, often it will be Taken Away from you. Look at the Cold Fusion 'Hoax' from back in 1989. Everyone thinks that Virtually Free Energy was some Experimental Fluke, that skilled tenured Scientists screwed up in the Lab somehow. But the truth is that these Scientists repeated their Experiment again and again and took repeated measurements.... packed up about a half a Dozen 'Kits' and sent them off to Major Universities, but somehow none of it could, 'for whatever reason' repeat. But look closely. It was the United States Government that shut it down. it was the United States Government that declared it all secret and cajoled the Universities into issuing the 'Could Not Repeat' findings. You see, the U. S. Dollar rests on the Price of Oil... we went from the Gold Standard in currency to effectively the 'Oil' Standard, and so they shut down Cold Fusion so the U. S. Economy (and ergo the World) would not collapse. But that was a long time ago and they STILL won't give us back Cold Fusion even when it would really be the solution for all of these Global Climate Change difficulties, which you also do your best to ignore.

So you see, Sometimes you can do your best and things still don't work out... In fact, that is perhaps the most typical result for most people.

JuliusFawcett wrote:For this reason I do not imagine nightmare fantasies, I use my imagination to create a beautiful vision of my future for myself and everyone else and then I move towards it, one thought at a time, one step at a time.


Maybe I mentioned this before, but thinking beautiful thoughts of the future, well, it both keeps you from seeing problems that are coming your way, and it makes you maladapted to dealing with the problems once they arrive. Have you heard of Martin Seligman, the author of "Learned Optimism", perhaps the Pioneer in Happiness Science (you should know about him, if about anybody), well, for all of his advocacy for Optimism, he was Intellectually Honest enough to report the result of his studies that Pessimists were better able to foresee difficulties and then they were better able to deal with difficulties then Optimists. Pessimists in short have keener Vision and are better Problem Solvers. Now, who doesn’t like Keen Vision and Problem Solving? Uh, you.

So it seems you Optimists can only survive in a World where the pessimists are averting future problems and solving all the present difficulties. Now, does it really seem Fair to you that the optimists should be enjoying such a free ride? At least they should be humble enough to say 'thank you'. Instead you try to make Pessimists feel ashamed of themselves.
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#27

Postby JuliusFawcett » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:39 am

I can't make you change your mind, I can't make you feel ashamed of choosing pessimism any more than I can make you choose optimism. Optimists are welcome to all the free rides they get, they chose their thought patterns and so they deserve the longer, healthier and happy lives that are associated with that choice.

If cold fusion works there is not much anyone can do to stop people using it, show the experiment on YouTube, show all the rebels to make themselves free energy, if it works people will adopt it.

Haters gonna hate, I choose peace, love and harmony.
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#28

Postby McCain » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:39 am

Leo Volont wrote:
This kind of Confusion is indeed gripping our entire society. Morals went out of style the same time that religion did, and now people only behave well when it suits them to, and there is scarcely nothing that people won't do if they believe they won't get caught.


Stick to numbers Leo, you don’t need integrity with mathematics.
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#29

Postby Leo Volont » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:14 pm

McCain wrote:
Leo Volont wrote:
This kind of Confusion is indeed gripping our entire society. Morals went out of style the same time that religion did, and now people only behave well when it suits them to, and there is scarcely nothing that people won't do if they believe they won't get caught.


Stick to numbers Leo, you don’t need integrity with mathematics.
McCain


Yes, thank you McCain. You are showing some insight there. that is exactly why I decided to do begin a Second Career, in Mathematics. it seems pure somehow.
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