Love my mother in law just can't live with her.

Postby Fernandita » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:50 pm

So here is my situation;

I have lived with my mother in law for the past 5 years, we lived in her house even after we had our first child. We never moved out of her house not because we couldn't afford but because we wanted to help her with the mortgage. The thing is that we bought a brand new single house with 4 bds and since she always worked so hard my now husband asked her to move in with us so she didn't have to worry about making payments. We didnt really talked about it much but I wasn't happy with his decision. Now is being 3 months living here in our new house, she already retired and no longer has her house. I love her I see her like a mother but I just can't live with her anymore, I already talk to my husband about it and about our privacy even thought she doesn't really get on our way the only fact that she lives under our roof bothers me. I know we lived with her in house but now that we can have our own space just for the four of us we still have to live with her. We never had that experience of living on our own. My husband already talked to my sister in law and she decided to take her with her, but she thinks we are being ungrateful with them, not only because we used to live with them but because we asked them to move with us and now we want them out and when I say them I mean my in-laws. Are we being ungrateful with them? Selfish because we just want to have our own space just for the four of us? is not like she can't afford a place or she is by herself. please I need your advices.
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#1

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:23 pm

Fernandita wrote:So here is my situation;

I have lived with my mother in law for the past 5 years, we lived in her house even after we had our first child. We never moved out of her house not because we couldn't afford but because we wanted to help her with the mortgage. The thing is that we bought a brand new single house with 4 bds and since she always worked so hard my now husband asked her to move in with us so she didn't have to worry about making payments. We didnt really talked about it much but I wasn't happy with his decision. Now is being 3 months living here in our new house, she already retired and no longer has her house. I love her I see her like a mother but I just can't live with her anymore, I already talk to my husband about it and about our privacy even thought she doesn't really get on our way the only fact that she lives under our roof bothers me. I know we lived with her in house but now that we can have our own space just for the four of us we still have to live with her. We never had that experience of living on our own. My husband already talked to my sister in law and she decided to take her with her, but she thinks we are being ungrateful with them, not only because we used to live with them but because we asked them to move with us and now we want them out and when I say them I mean my in-laws. Are we being ungrateful with them? Selfish because we just want to have our own space just for the four of us? is not like she can't afford a place or she is by herself. please I need your advices.


Dear Fernandita,

Yes, people, from various cultural perspectives might accuse you of being disrespectful and ungrateful to these Elders, as in many cultures it is not the ‘Nuclear’ Family (Husband, Wife and Kids) that is the primary Unit, but the entire Extended Family – Grand Parents, Uncles and Aunts, Husband and Wife and Kids all live under the same roof… and it is considered normal. Also, it goes with a Ranking System, and the Older People have more pull… more say… even over your own children. You may be forty years old and these Old Folks will still treat you like a child. Yes, even if you are paying the Mortgage.

This, apparently, is how your husband sees it. He doesn’t mind. He is only waiting for you to ‘adjust’. Well, you can… that is, adjust. Or you can simply issue an ultimatum – that you will find some small efficiency apartment for yourself, and will certainly plan to visit them quite often, BUT, you decided that you really need to be your own boss and not have some Mother looking over your shoulder. Yes, even if she doesn’t ‘say’ anything, there is something that she is doing that bothers you. After all, if she didn’t ‘bother you’ somehow, then there would not be a problem, would there. Something she is doing is driving you crazy, and you a right to decide you have had enough of it.

Get your own place. Let it be close by, so you can visit every evening if you like. Go on ‘dates’ with your husband. But make it a point that you will no longer live under your Mother In Law’s roof… especially when you are paying the freight.

Maybe such a move on your part will wake up Mother In Law to the horrible passive aggressive treatment she has been dishing out to you all these years – she probably is Well Aware of what she is doing that you can’t stand – rolling her eyes at your cooking and cleaning and how you discipline the children… the old Bird knows what she is doing. Maybe this will be a wake up call for her to finally bow out and Retire. These Cultures also allow for that. Past a Certain Age, the old people are allowed to simply Be Free of all Responsibility, and let the Next Generation take over everything. In some Cultures it is sort of Funny… the Old people… just the day before were models of respectable propriety, but upon celebrating their Retirement Freedom… they take up Smoking, Drinking, dancing about, telling dirty jokes… they really let loose… FINALLY they don’t have to CARE about anything or anybody. Well, this is sort of what your Mother In Law needs to do. She needs to become So Insignificant that you no longer mind her being around. Or, as I said, you need to take care of yourself.
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#2

Postby JuliusFawcett » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:23 am

What is your gut instinct telling you right now?
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#3

Postby Dennis Vasiliev » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:53 pm

The thing is, though, we are on this planet to only please ourselves. You and your husband are good people, you already let your mother in law to live with you. Your husband was wrong for not discussing this issue with you before. He probably knows that already.

About you mother in law, you did everything you could and now you have to deal with this situation properly with the end result of her not living with you anymore. There is nothing wrong about that. She will live somewhere else.

However, keeping her in your house will be a fatal mistake, because you already don't seem very happy with this situation and it will only get worse)
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#4

Postby Leo Volont » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:33 am

Hi Everybody,

Yes, I know that I earlier advised Fernandita to move out, or make ultimatums... sort of the same kind of advice that Dennis V is giving.... but, it now occurs to me that people do not write in for Extremely Drastic kinds of Advice. they want something that is kind of 'Do-able'. She probably thinks she can't leave and she probably thinks she can't kick the Old Lady out. She is looking for something in between.

Well, there is Something she could do. In Anger Management a fairly standard principle is to Avoid what makes us angry when we can readily do so without adverse impact. Well, that is the Advice we can give our Fernandita -- to simply find friends and hobbies that can keep her out of the house a great deal of the time. She doesn't even have to make a big issue of it. "Oh, I met a new lady, Barbara Beeswax. She is SO cool. I think we are going to be the best of friends. Why we are even planning to jog together down by the river road several evening a week now". Or. "I've heard about so much fun people are having with Bowling Leagues...". or "That new night class I'm taking. Well, I was able to get in with a real smart Study Group... we meet at the Library". With a little imagination, pretty soon she could have most of her None Sleeping Hours scheduled away. and it would keep her Mother In Law out of her hair.

Now, yes, the Mother in Law or even the rather uncaring and perhaps unthinking husband would eventually catch on the intrinsic motivations for all this Getting Out of the House. But Fernandita can simply stick to her story, and if her husband or the Mother In Law REALLY do think that Fernandita is simply practicing avoidance... well, then they can think about what THEY can do to make things better enough for Fernandita to want to stay home.
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#5

Postby Dennis Vasiliev » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:11 am

Yes, Leo Volont, I agree that people mostly want some "soft moves" to make a drastic change in their life. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. It might work for some time, but it never works in the long term. In order to make a significant improvement in your life you have to make tough decisions. It's like getting a divorce. Is deciding to get a divorce easy? Hell no, you would have to completely change your life. Is a divorce necessary in some cases? Of course!

I am always an advocate for "short-term pain" vs "long-term".
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#6

Postby Leo Volont » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:20 pm

Dennis Vasiliev wrote:Yes, Leo Volont, I agree that people mostly want some "soft moves" to make a drastic change in their life. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. It might work for some time, but it never works in the long term. In order to make a significant improvement in your life you have to make tough decisions. It's like getting a divorce. Is deciding to get a divorce easy? Hell no, you would have to completely change your life. Is a divorce necessary in some cases? Of course!

I am always an advocate for "short-term pain" vs "long-term".


Wow! Thanks Dennis!

I was second guessing myself, and trying not to push these poor people too much too soon. But, yes, there certainly must be cases in which an experienced person simply sees as plain as day (an Old Irish Oath would use the words ‘as the sky shines blue and the grass grows green’ to indicate the Obvious Nature of True Things) that any Easy Fix would necessarily be a Temporary and Incomplete One.

Thank you, Dennis, for your perspective. It probably IS a good idea to give our Clients the broadest view of their Situation, as we see it, along with a wide range of solutions, if we can discern them. That is what we are here for, isn’t it?
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#7

Postby Dennis Vasiliev » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:50 pm

Yeah, you are right, Leo ) a lot of people clicks the "exit" botton as soon as they see some major actions necessary. I am sure Fernandita is not like that.

I agree, the wide range of solutions is crucial here, because we only know a portion of the story and almost inevitably interpret it in our own way. Only Fernandita can tell us what solution is more appropriate to her and what she plans to do next.
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#8

Postby Leo Volont » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:06 pm

Dear D.V.

Oh! I hadn't thought of that.... that we only know a portion of the story and can't be expected to come up with a totally full solution that will fill in every single blank. Of course, it is obvious, once you make me think of it. But I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to somehow surmise the exact Situation from the few clues provided. I guess I have read too many detective novels.

anyway, I am glad I found you. You are a grounding and thoughtful influence.
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#9

Postby Cpt Yossarian » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:43 pm

I agree with every word Leo Volont has to say. He is a very smart man.
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#10

Postby ethanbridges » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:05 pm

Great advice going on here.

Fernandita, it is normal to not want to live with your mother-in-law, especially when you already have your own family. I bet you also wouldn't want to live with your mother. You love them, you love all your relatives (generally), but living under one roof is a whole different issue to deal with.

Respecting your privacy isn't selfish.

You're a very kind person, Fernandita. Just take it easy.
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#11

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:08 pm

Cpt Yossarian wrote:I agree with every word Leo Volont has to say. He is a very smart man.


Wow!

Thanks, Captain.

You know, I sit at lone and I think to myself sometimes, after thinking about a book, or the news, or whatever, that my Thoughts are actually more discerning then those of a lot of the Critics, or Newscasters, or whoever. Of course, I dismiss such thoughts out of modesty, but it is good to hear from other REAL people that it seems Smart to them too.
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#12

Postby Leo Volont » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:38 pm

ethanbridges wrote:Great advice going on here.

Fernandita, it is normal to not want to live with your mother-in-law, especially when you already have your own family. I bet you also wouldn't want to live with your mother. You love them, you love all your relatives (generally), but living under one roof is a whole different issue to deal with.

Respecting your privacy isn't selfish.

You're a very kind person, Fernandita. Just take it easy.


Dear Ethanbridges,


Yes, I agree with you, and I would agree with Fernandita, if she declared she preferred to live as Queen of her own Household, while being only a Mother, that is a woman of just 2 Degrees – 1 degree being a mere girl, 2 degrees being a Mother, 3 Degrees being a Grandmother, and so on. With Life Expectancy going up and up, well, I hate to say it, but, it really does seem to be pushing at presumption to outright declare that Women of just 2 degrees should be in charge of anything, but that which is delegated down to her by 3rd and 4th Degree Woman of the same Extended Family.


Remember everybody, that the ‘Nuclear Family’ -- Mom Dad and Kids living in their own home, well, that is Historically a very recent phenomena. Yes, among Poor People, from where most of us Modern Middle Class emerged, the life expectancy was so low that there generally were no 3rd or 4th Degree Women to take charge, or they were so debilitated and on the edge of death, etc. But among the Well To Do, those who lived longer, the Traditions were for the Elders to become Matriarchs and Patriarchs of the Family. Adult Sons did not move out. The Women they married moved in.

In a way it was great. Grandmothers and Aunts would jump in to help with Infant Care and Education of the youth. The Children would have a number of good Role Models, instead of as now, just hoping that Mom and Dad are not too screwed up. Indeed, I noticed that in America, the same Traditional Pattern holds for Hispanics, for a large part, and the young Mothers do not have to worry about Day Care, because Grand Ma is home to watch the kids.


Yes, the Nuclear Family was great while it lasted. Young Men and Young Women could feel empowered and like they ruled the World. But really!? Basically 3 entire generations of Americans and probably many in Britain and Europe were raised by ‘Trainees’ – Parents with absolutely no previous experience. Now, what sense does that make?! No wonder everyone is dazed and confused and dysfunctional and maladjusted. We were raised by, well, virtual children themselves for as much as they knew about child rearing.


Oh, and there is not just the Good Sense of going back to the Extended Family. Look at the News. Look at the Unemployment Data. Unemployment has been sloping up for the last 60 years. That means that it is an Embedded Institutional Trend by now. Whatever they are doing is causing More Unemployment, and it is not likely they are going to stop (as, well, firing people saves money, if you can replace them with a cheap Apple Wiggit). So it is Very Likely that 2nd Degree Men and Women won’t, in the very near future, have the capacity to maintain their own households. Remember, that 50 years ago, only the Men worked, and that was enough. Now it takes Two. Soon it will take more than 2 can come up with.


Anyway, so while it is nice to tell Young Adults and New Parents to go off on their own and to ostracize the Older Generations, so they can feel empowered and unencumbered by bothersome social relationships that they would need to attend to… well, I feel that in the Long Run, it simply is not practical.


People need to learn to get away for the Nuclear Family, which was only a Social Aberration to begin with. Living in Extended Families was the Primary Model of the Past, and it will be the Primary Model for the Future.
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#13

Postby Fernandita » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:48 am

ethanbridges wrote:Great advice going on here.

Fernandita, it is normal to not want to live with your mother-in-law, especially when you already have your own family. I bet you also wouldn't want to live with your mother. You love them, you love all your relatives (generally), but living under one roof is a whole different issue to deal with.

Respecting your privacy isn't selfish.

You're a very kind person, Fernandita. Just take it easy.


Thank you! My husband and I think is the best for Us to leave on our own, we already spoke with his sister and as I mentioned before even thought they think we are being ungrateful we'll talk to my parents in law about them moving out. Now even though my husband and I feel ready to talk to them, I don't know how we are going to bring this topic to them. I really don't want them to feel like we don't love them, we are ungrateful or we just don't want them on our lives, we just want to have our privacy and have that experience of living on our own just the 4 of us. Or having her for few days at home and be excited to see her here, or to take her out, Anger Managment might not be the right forum for this topic since it was my first time ever using this. But I just want to make it clear that I love her, I also love my father in law and if I knew that they have anywhere else to go or no financing support or if they are old
I wouldnt ever asked them to leave my house, but besides our mistake on asking them to move in with us I think is time for us to live on our own.
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#14

Postby Fernandita » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:52 am

@ethanbridges
Thank you! My husband and I think is the best for Us to leave on our own, we already spoke with his sister and as I mentioned before even thought they think we are being ungrateful we'll talk to my parents in law about them moving out. Now even though my husband and I feel ready to talk to them, I don't know how we are going to bring this topic to them. I really don't want them to feel like we don't love them, we are ungrateful or we just don't want them on our lives, we just want to have our privacy and have that experience of living on our own just the 4 of us. Or having her for few days at home and be excited to see her here, or to take her out, Anger Managment might not be the right forum for this topic since it was my first time ever using this. But I just want to make it clear that I love her, I also love my father in law and if I knew that they have anywhere else to go or no financing support or if they are old
I wouldnt ever asked them to leave my house, but besides our mistake on asking them to move in with us I think is time for us to live on our own.
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