People get angry at me when I argue with them

Postby Hamming » Sun May 08, 2016 8:47 pm

Hello,

I am fed up of those people blaming me that I make them nervous, angry, just because I do not accept to what they say, have my own opinion.

For example today we were playing basketball, and friend tells one rule which is not official basketball rule. I do not like his rule and suggest my own improved.

He says to me - do not tell nonsense (I am not sure how it should sound in english). I do not understand why my rule is nonsense, but I did not argue or ask, because I know him and he will become angry, annoyed, and they are not interested in discussing, they want to play.

Why his rule is not nonsense? WTF. This makes me angry also. This is bs what he says. At least when he does not give me normal reasons to understand why his rule is good and my is bad.

And since he does not give reason, I believe its because he wants such rule and things to be the way he wants.

Ok, I have an option to not play by his rules and leave. Does not matter.

But what I hate is that I do not understand why my rule is nonsense. I think it is very good. I feel humiliated when I cannot argue, cannot defend my opinion. It feels that he is my friend not because he is the most fun to talk to, but because I get good carreer advices from him and also I do not have many friends.

I have girl friend who most of the time is easy to talk to and not humiliating me. Also I have a guy on the interenet who is fun to talk and we can have different opinions but we do not get angry at each other because of different opinions and I do not feel humiliated.

How to deal with this? I mean, its almost every time I meet him, he tells something which I do not agree and want to argue. But I tried few times to not argue to not make him angry. I keep my friends that way - the less I annoy them, the more they will like me. If they were worthless, I would not care if they like me or not, but they have good value. PLus from time to time by hanging with them, I have oportunity to meet new guys, who maybe would become my friends. I need to widen up my social circle to be able to choose who are best of my friends.

Is that really good to just stop arguing? Is there anything else to do so that I would not feel humiliated and at the same time do not make them angry?
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon May 09, 2016 2:23 am

"Don't major in minor things." - Jim Rohn

Hamming wrote: Is that really good to just stop arguing? Is there anything else to do so that I would not feel humiliated and at the same time do not make them angry?


Yes. You should not argue over such trivial things. Save your energy to work on major issues. The major issue in your life sounds like a lack of self confidence. Use your energy focusing on yourself and becoming a stronger person. This will help you not feel humiliated.
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#2

Postby Hamming » Mon May 09, 2016 5:45 am

Save your energy to work on major issues.


I need energy not to argue :) it requires effort.

And I am constantly working on my self confidence. But this did not make me to not feel humiliated when I cannot tell what I think. Besides when I am ok that they think I am more stupid because I get value from them (for example money).

Not sure if that is good, but helps I think - when I think in my mind that I am smarter than him in that topic by not arguing, then its easier. I am smarter, he is stupid. Its not worth to try to discuss with stupid people. Its the same as discussing with a dog.

But he is not stupid overall. He is confident and smart. So not sure is that best way. But I need some way to feel good about not arguing. For me its harder to treat him as stupid. And I respect my friends and expect them to respect me also. Treating as stupid is not respecting.

Probably in the companies bosses just do not argue much, but do not respect in their minds the workers who annoy them. They still bring value to the company. They might even tell - good work. While thinking - you damn, you cheated 2 hours for sure and could do even more in a day.

Another thing - it is minor, ok. I forget. But probably the problem is that its minor again and again. And many minors create big thing, isn't it?


I also know some woman who are "right" against their man. I see them and think - what the hell, this man does not have any balls. (I mean he has balls when talking to a man I believe, he would not give up easily if somebody did not respect him, but he does not have balls against woman). He is letting that woman act or talk like this with him with no respect. It looks terrible from the side. Even when its minor thing, but I remember woman using angry voice tone against man by telling he is stupid and she is right, and then her daughter also added that he is stupid. But he was not stupid from his statement. He made a very logical statement. Maybe he was not 100 % correct, because that needed some statistical data to prove. But he for sure was not terribly wrong that he should be deserved called stupid.
I know think that those - mother and daughter are not worth a respect while from the looks I first thought that daughter is so beautiful and I would want such girl.


Ok, at least I am not doing wrong by trying to stop arguing. Just not sure how it will go.


Oh and btw - I remember discussing this topic with my childhood friend who is very confident. He said he would not stop arguing if he is right. Only I remember that he stopped arguing with the client in the job. Because as you know in business clients are always "right". So he practically also just fakes being wrong, while in mind he knows that he is right in situations when he can get some value out of this. So what can you tell about this?
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#3

Postby bert_ernie » Mon May 09, 2016 12:54 pm

that kind of thing is kind of a diplomacy skill.

how to "manage" certain personalities or moods. not necessarily to get your way. so you won't always win. you won't always have them surrender to your point of view. but in essence you shouldn't want that anyway.

but if you can have the skills/traits to get them & you into a state of mind where there can be discussion about the pros & cons of certain ways/alternatives without attachment or owning ideas. then you can have more enjoyable interactions when you have disagreements. so you can disagree with civility. & without either taking things personally. whereas when you both get angry or hurt then it's difficult for either to see the other points of view.

if they are initially hostile then maybe you focus on how do i first get them out of this angry hostile state. maybe that's just showing that you're listening and understanding their point of view. or just maintaining a happy positive mood & waiting for them to join you on team happy.

but as i say it's a skill i think.

the types of people i've seen who tend to have this are people who love to talk & are quite warm personalities. & i think also have the capability to hard or to be soft.

i'm sure it could be learned through experience though.

to simplify that word jungle, the manner you present your alternative point of view could have a large bearing on how likely they are to accept your idea.
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#4

Postby WonderGurl » Mon May 09, 2016 1:59 pm

There is the right and the wrong way to argue. If you argue in such a manner that antagonises people, then you're doing something wrong. You can get your message across is such a way that people will think you're the bee's knees. Practice communication skills. Don't antagonise people.

In regards to the woman thing, may I suggest it's nothing to do with her being "right", it's again an example of very poor communication. There was no need to call him stupid. She could have expressed herself in such a way that showed respect for her husband, yet got her message across.

Overall, if you want to be able to effectively communicate with people in general in all life areas, you need to understand that it's sometimes worth losing a battle in order to win the war. Diplomacy is a skill that will get you much further in life than arguing with people just to prove your worth. By being diplomatic and respectful, you are not only asserting their worth, but your own also, you are displaying a level of maturity. It's a win/win for both sides.
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#5

Postby Hamming » Tue May 10, 2016 5:29 am

you won't always have them surrender to your point of view.


I understand this. I think I want to understand their opinion. Some statement just does not make sense. Opinion is not right or wrong sometimes, its just what he likes. But when he tells I talk nonsense, it hurts, because I do not understand why it is nonsense. And also makes me want to talk less because I talk nonsense and so then I am silent guy. I remember also from childhood that people were saying I talk nonsense (I think mostly was nonsense because I tried to make jokes but they were not funny).

But in this case I was not making a joke but suggesting game rule. And I think he cannot explain why his rule is right. Because its just what he likes, not that it is right.

Practice communication skills. Don't antagonise people.

I am constantly practicing comunication skills. But if I am doing wrong all the time, then it does not work. Maybe when I will stop arguing, it will work better. Just not sure how to feel happy about listening to something what does not make sense and not arguing.

How to not antagonise people?

it's sometimes worth losing a battle in order to win the war.

That I believe is true. You are being smarter by being diplomatic. Question is how to enjoy such communication.

I talked with one girl which I have no problems by arguing - we do not get in angry state. And I say its interesting how that happens. She says its because she is patient. Also she says that I do not understand some simple things and people get nervous when they need to explain.

I said - do I need to to stop arguing with her and change the way I talk, do I also annoy her? I said I still want to have friends which who I can tell my opinion and argue if they do not match. She said that I do not need to change, she is able to talk with various people.

So thats good, it means that they are some people who do not have problems with the way I talk.
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#6

Postby Hamming » Tue May 10, 2016 7:20 am

In regards to the woman thing, may I suggest it's nothing to do with her being "right", it's again an example of very poor communication. There was no need to call him stupid. She could have expressed herself in such a way that showed respect for her husband, yet got her message across.


Ok, so why some people can talk sh** and some people cannot? this makes me angry. And this makes me hate woman. I see lot of example where woman do and tell what they want bad to the husband. Its hard for me to fall in love probably because of this. I have to be careful- not to allow woman to talk with me like this. And be prepared for divorce if she does not stop.

I also wanted to argue to defend this man. But did not want to get anger from her. So gave up again. And this woman did not learn her lesson and probably continues to make her husband unhappy.

And I guess some people can talk sh** because nothing bad happens to them for this. This woman knows that the man would have hard time to be alone, because he has serious health problems. And probably no new woman would want to live with man who has serious health problems.

I have read that you must choose 5 people who are not toxic. You will not change how all people talk. But you should choose people who supports you and respects you. And so you can grow better. Too bad some people are in situation where they have no options :( At least I still do, because I am young, I am not married, not having children. And at the same time I am afraid of getting into marriage because it is high chance that I will be in the similar situation as this poor man is.

This article looks decent:

http://performdestiny.com/how-to-not-gi ... -bullshit/
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#7

Postby Hamming » Tue May 10, 2016 7:38 am

Btw also remembered - my boss said to literally express my opinion. I am having full rights in the collective. So it does not make sense because when I start telling what I think, I will hurt people. He sees me probably as shy person and wants to help. But that might be wrong. Thats why I am so careful, I really do not want to make my colleagues angry at me. I want peace with them.
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#8

Postby WonderGurl » Tue May 10, 2016 3:11 pm

You have a lot going on.

You should read a book called "How to Win Friends and Influence People". The basic structure of the book consists of four sections: fundamental techniques in handling people; six ways to make people like you; how to win people to your way of thinking; be a leader: how to change people without giving offence or arousing resentment.
If that book doesn't suit you, find other literature from which you can learn the art of interpersonal communication.

Understand that everyone has their views and opinions. Not everything is right or wrong, black or white. Most things in life fall within the grey area which means most things in life are subject to interpretation. Your friend has an opinion. You have a different opinion about the same thing. It doesn't mean that one of you is wrong and the other is right. All it means that both of you are looking at the same thing from different perspectives. Instead of arguing with people you could try to understand where they are coming from, try to understand how their view is different from your own and why? You can learn so much about people just by listening to what they are saying, observing their body language, their tone of voice... What can you learn from them that you don't already know? Listen to what they have to say, be curious.

How to avoid antagonising people? There are so many way to not! For starters, you are probably aware that most people want to talk, talk, talk. They will appreciate when you show genuine interest in what they have to say and listen, ask them questions, stay curious. If you have a different opinion about something (which doesn't necessarily make either of you right or wrong), express it in a gentle, respectful manner, there's no need to be harsh about it.

You enjoy losing a battle by looking at the bigger picture. What benefits being diplomatic brings you? Think about it? What good is it arguing with people over trivial things? Close to none. How about the benefits? Well, you will create a positive image of yourself in their minds and they will be more willing to cooperate with you in future. That's just one of many benefits. Give it some thought yourself.

Patience is a virtue. It's such a valuable skill to develop. When you are a patient person, and you take a step to achieve something, and it doesn't look like you are getting anywhere, you still know you are getting where you want to be, just more slowly than you might prefer. Being patient with people is an essential skill if you are to be successful in any area of life. As an off the top of the head example, when someone is giving you hard time, being argumentative and you completely disagree with their opinion, and you would love to just give them a piece of your mind... being patient means you are able to hear them out, show them that you are listening, de-escalate the situation and create a dialogue between you and them instead of provoking an argument.

Your question should be "Why do some people choose to talk s**t?" Everyone CAN talk sh**. The wiser ones choose not to. That woman is choosing to express herself the way she does. Not all women are like that. There are plenty of well-mannered, diplomatic women and men. There are plenty of rude, narrow minded women and men.
Why would you want to defend that man? Is it any of your business? It's their relationship, leave them at it, it has nothing to do with you. In their case, your opinion does not matter, so, you made the right choice to keep it to yourself. If one or both of them want your opinion, they will ask for it. Unsolicited advice is seldom welcome.

Yes, it matters tremendously what people you surround yourself with. Choose wisely. If you decide to get married, get to know the girl. Don't get married in a haste. But you're not ready to marry yet. Get to know yourself first. Get to know how to interact with people effectively and successfully first.

Yes, your boss encouraged you to express your opinion. In every single interaction you have with people what matters is not what you say, but how you say it: your body language, your tone of voice, the words you choose. These things make up the message that people receive from you. When you are expressing your opinion, be sure to dress it in the right clothes so that people receive it in the closest way possible to how you intend it to be received. You can express your opinion and create allies. It's a matter of how go about achieving that.
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#9

Postby Hamming » Tue May 10, 2016 9:01 pm

You should read a book called "How to Win Friends and Influence People". The basic structure of the book consists of four sections: fundamental techniques in handling people; six ways to make people like you; how to win people to your way of thinking; be a leader: how to change people without giving offence or arousing resentment.
If that book doesn't suit you, find other literature from which you can learn the art of interpersonal communication.


Adding to the todo list :) btw I have heard that I should not need that everyone like me. That is impossible. But maybe I still need that most of poeple would like me who I need to like me?

Instead of arguing with people you could try to understand where they are coming from, try to understand how their view is different from your own and why?

What good is it arguing with people over trivial things? Close to none.

I am trying to understand. Thats why I am arguing. From arguments it happens that I got the point which makes sense when I do not stop and give up and feel like looser. That is the benefit from arguments.

Why would you want to defend that man?

Because I do not like to see people suffering when they did nothing bad.

Don't get married in a haste. But you're not ready to marry yet. Get to know yourself first. Get to know how to interact with people effectively and successfully first.


I really do not want to get married in a haste. But I am not sure what I will do if I become like 30. Or 35. Or wait till 40 if I still have not fixed myself? What age would be the limit when I should marry in a haste to not be too late? I am bit afraid that maybe some time I will want to have family but it might be too late. Or maybe it would not be too late to get a woman having kids already. But maybe I still will want my own kid.

In every single interaction you have with people what matters is not what you say, but how you say it: your body language, your tone of voice, the words you choose

Yea , I have heard this many times. The problem is to implement it in real. Even my friend says the same - tone of voice, blah blah blah. I have no idea how should I fix thing like tone of voice.

You enjoy losing a battle by looking at the bigger picture.

But I want to win both battle and war like other people do. For example - my friend, he does not care that much about my opinion when he claims statement and when I tell opinion, he says I tell nonsense. And he does not loose me. So he won battle and war.
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#10

Postby WonderGurl » Tue May 10, 2016 9:52 pm

Just try to be open to expanding your horizon a bit more. Right now you're not seeing past your immediate vicinity.

So winning an argument at any cost makes you feel like a winner? Short term gain vs long term cost? You're not thinking when you choose to argue. You are acting on an impulse. That is not a mature way to act. Think about cost/benefit equation. Do you want to be known as a difficult, argumentative, immature person or someone who is approachable, respectable and communicative?
No, everyone won't like you. But you can get as many people as realistically possible to like you. Why is it beneficial to have sound people skills? What use can you make of it? If you can't, then continue to argue your point for a short buzz of not feeling like a loser. Then what?

Did that man ask your help? Did he indicate he wants your protection? You have no idea of the couple's history or of the dynamic between them, you have no idea why their communication is the way it is. If he didn't indicate he wants your support, his suffering has nothing to do with you. You will not be a hero by getting involved in a domestic situation. You will be a busy body. You will be someone who lacks clear judgement. It's not your place to get involved.

There is no age limit for marriage. Get yourself sorted first. When you meet a girl you like and if she likes you back, get to know each other well. If you get married because you think it will be too late soon or if you want to have a kid, are these really the right reasons to get married? If you marry, marry for the right reasons.

There is no problem in improving your body language and the tone of voice. Observe and practice. Keep observing and practicing. If you are not getting the results you want, continue to observe and practice until you do.

...But you cannot win them all. Your friend says your opinion is nonsense.He can possibly get away with it because you are friends, but do you really think that's an effective or a positive or a wise way to communicate? Does he communicate in that manner with every other person as well as yourself? Does he really win every battle AND the war? Do YOU want to go around declaring that your non-friend's opinions are nonsense? How far will that get you?
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#11

Postby Hamming » Wed May 11, 2016 9:35 am

So winning an argument at any cost makes you feel like a winner? Short term gain vs long term cost?


Yea, it makes me feel like a winner. Like many people do I think. At least man. But woman also try to be better vs each other by looks for example.

But be winner is not as important. What feels bad is to be a looser.

And I agree that short term gain is not good when you have to pay long term big cost. I want to feel good short term and not pay long term cost.

And I do not want to win an argument when I am not right. THe same I do not like people winning when they are not actually right. Or in the situation where there is no right or wrong, there is only the taste, opinion. Because then I feel bad.

Some said that I need to understand other guy why he is thinking the way he thinks. And by arguing I am trying to get that information.

You're not thinking when you choose to argue. You are acting on an impulse. That is not a mature way to act. Think about cost/benefit equation. Do you want to be known as a difficult, argumentative, immature person or someone who is approachable, respectable and communicative?

But I could think before arguing. I want to be respectable and communicative. But how can I be respectable if I always give up. People will treat me like the guy who agrees on everything they say, silent one, being afraid to tell what he thinks, does not stand up for his opinion. Is that respectable? Such guy looks like a "pussy" in my opinion. And I am becoming bigger "pussy".

I know one guy who almost never argues, just stays quite while in a group other people are constantly telling their opinions. This guy does not get into opinion conflicts. But he just looks bit weird. And there are some jokes that he is not telling you but he will hit you :) or he is writing into his black book of what everyone is saying to him.

Did that man ask your help? Did he indicate he wants your protection? You have no idea of the couple's history or of the dynamic between them, you have no idea why their communication is the way it is. If he didn't indicate he wants your support, his suffering has nothing to do with you. You will not be a hero by getting involved in a domestic situation. You will be a busy body. You will be someone who lacks clear judgement. It's not your place to get involved.


No, I think its because he thinks its a shame and nobody will solve the problem. Or he might pretend thats not big problem. But actually this repeats over and over again I believe. That usually happens. And I think the history does not matter in that case, I think people just should not talk bs to each other.

There is no age limit for marriage. Get yourself sorted first. When you meet a girl you like and if she likes you back, get to know each other well. If you get married because you think it will be too late soon or if you want to have a kid, are these really the right reasons to get married? If you marry, marry for the right reasons.

I have heard that in too old age, there is a higher risk for woman to die when giving birth and also kid might be more likely an invalid when too old woman gives birth. Unless I fix myself and get still very young woman like 10 years younger.
Or what if I never succeed in fully fixing myself? Then I should not have family?

There is no problem in improving your body language and the tone of voice. Observe and practice. Keep observing and practicing. If you are not getting the results you want, continue to observe and practice until you do.

I think I am trying to copy the way my friends do, but so far it does not work. Or maybe I copy wrong.


...But you cannot win them all. Your friend says your opinion is nonsense.He can possibly get away with it because you are friends, but do you really think that's an effective or a positive or a wise way to communicate? Does he communicate in that manner with every other person as well as yourself? Does he really win every battle AND the war? Do YOU want to go around declaring that your non-friend's opinions are nonsense? How far will that get you?


Is it positive to tell your friend that he talks nonsense? I don't know. But if the guy who is teaching me talks like this, maybe it is the right thing to do. He has good social skills at least comparing to my ones. But usually I try to avoid telling people that they are talking nonsense when its my opinion, because opinion cannot be good or nonsense and it shows a disrespect.

I know he tells that his wife talk nonsense from time to time. At least with me, I don't know if he wins every battle but he wins most of them I think. THe war he wins also. WHat is war - the big thing that I still am his friend? Then he wins it. I do not feel fun when I cannot tell my opinion but I still need to talk with him and need to have friend like him.

I do not think that I will do good by telling other people that they talk nonsense. But he gets away with this. At least with me and his wife.
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#12

Postby Hamming » Wed May 11, 2016 9:45 am

Btw I am arguing now with you. WIthout arguing, I could not get the information I want. From the way I argue you can also see how I do. Because in the same way I think I argue with my friends.

You can check my posts and see how I do and what I do wrong.
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#13

Postby Hamming » Thu May 12, 2016 6:57 am

Checked my documents and found that I have written what my friend said once:

Its super exhausting if you hang out with somebody who takes everything so seriously and analises everything


So maybe that is the reason that they simply are exhausted and so get angry.


But for me its fun to analize and understand a lot. Thats one thing. I could stop analising.

But the important thing is - I might not be respected if I give up and do not say my opinion. Still waiting on the comment on this statement.
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#14

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Thu May 12, 2016 2:08 pm

Hamming wrote: But the important thing is - I might not be respected if I give up and do not say my opinion. Still waiting on the comment on this statement.


You think you have respect?

I don't respect you, because you are arguing about the most insignificant of things. Your issues are trivial, worthless and meaningless in the scope of life. Losing respect over an opinion about a basketball rule...seriously? That is your big issue in life, that is what you feel is important to discuss?

You will never be respected until you earn respect. You do this by not majoring in minor things. This means you shut your mouth and focus your brain. You don't waste your time analyzing and providing your opinion about insignificant issues that are not really even worthy of a conversation.

You speak, only when you have something important to say. That is how you gain and hold respect. People learn that when you speak, your opinion matters. People learn that when you speak, they need to listen because the words that come out of your mouth will be about an important issue. You are a leader, a problem solver, a person of importance that deserves respect, as when you speak you have something of value to offer.

Instead, every time you open your mouth about an insignificant issue you think you are protecting your respect. What respect do you really believe you hold? Currently people know that when you open your mouth that the words that come out will be about some trivial item not worthy of their time.

I'm exaggerating here to make a point.

Like any other person on the planet, you deserve the respect that you have earned. You think you earn respect by arguing over a basketball rule...I disagree. I think you lose respect by arguing over a basketball rule.
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