The Point of Advice and Self-Sacrifice?

#15

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon May 23, 2016 6:31 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: Well, that's wherein the distrust lies. I'm not sure I can buy yet that people will try to make me feel better. I see it so rarely.


Ref the need for validation, we all need validation at some level.

I guess there in lies the sticky wicket, that we all have different expectations. I'm very trusting, I have a high degree of confidence that people try, I need very little validation and for me I see people trying to make me feel better all over the place.

Maybe it is because the bar I have set is so low. For me, a person saying good morning, giving me a smile, opening a door, sending me a friendly email are all people engaging in the act of making me feel better, even if it is a hard wired act to remove their own discomfort. I don't see that as any less valid than an act where they go out of their way to make me feel good.

It seems to me that possibly you have a very high bar people must jump over in order for it to qualify in your mind.

For instance, this interaction between you and I is reciprocal in nature. I'm not trying make you feel bad. I have no hidden motive. I gain from our exchange and hope you do as well. It is my hope that in my opinion demonstrates an attempt to make you feel better. I cannot control how you perceive the exchange. It may not meet your threshold and there is nothing I can really do about that.
User avatar
Richard@DecisionSkills
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 10246
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 am
Likes Received: 1049


#16

Postby tijmenklip » Mon May 23, 2016 7:46 pm

Art Vandelay, besides all the points being made here.

Your experience is so much shaped by HOW you view the world. If you have a inner belief that people can't ever be trusted to be altruistic. You won't ever see it anywhere. On the other hand, somehow if you have a belief that people are altruistic. You will see it in many places.

We are in the end very subjective interpreters of reality/the world. So because of your strong belief that it is not possible, it is hard for arguments here to sway you. And you will probably keep experiencing the same in your life. Not unless you learn to be open for other possibilities.
tijmenklip
Junior Member
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:10 pm
Location: Amsterdam
Likes Received: 5

#17

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue May 24, 2016 7:24 am

It seems to me that possibly you have a very high bar people must jump over in order for it to qualify in your mind.


Yes, you nailed it there. That's exactly it. As mentioned, I do see acts that I'd consider nice, and while it would SEEM that even these elementary niceties are less and less of an occurrence, for myself and many people, when these moments do present themselves I cannot fully relish in them. Sure, it's possible that I've become slightly better at just accepting things, but there's a still a very nagging part of me that says "more, more, more". There is a degree of anhedonia. Yes, a dissatisfaction with standard reactions as result of past criticisms. Not necessarily criticisms always directed at me. I just absorb many outside opinions - am...uh, highly suggestible from a lack of a strong foundation of belief other than a handful of absolutes I subscribe to. There's a duality in me that I have this individualist streak but also very much subsist on feedback, in abundance. I'm still trying to people please on some level (for creative projects I pursue and stuff; still trying to appease some vague idea of integrity that I have based on a convoluted aesthetic), despite misanthropy coming very naturally. It's a constant tug of war of how I want to project myself, the high - perhaps unattainable - standards I've set in place for myself, and how I actually feel. This is yet another digression, but it's not secret that the concept of merely 'being yourself' is hackneyed and misguided. Within reason it's possible to attain happiness doing whatever you want I guess...there comes a point when you can deviate from the standard social structure and be infinitely more satisfied because you have (not without ramifications obviously) ...although, appealing to a consensus idea of what's considered more acceptable keeps us more satisfied. This is all within reason of course.

There was a post in the other thread I made that I was working on that was responding to you - and this is when I thought we were getting off on the wrong foot or whatever - ...a very long-winded post, so I wouldn't blame anyone who wouldn't want to slog through it; it elaborates more on this. Explains more where I'm coming from. I may finish the post and have to edit it appropriately. I dunno.

And tijmenklip said:


Your experience is so much shaped by HOW you view the world. If you have a inner belief that people can't ever be trusted to be altruistic. You won't ever see it anywhere. On the other hand, somehow if you have a belief that people are altruistic. You will see it in many places.

We are in the end very subjective interpreters of reality/the world. So because of your strong belief that it is not possible, it is hard for arguments here to sway you. And you will probably keep experiencing the same in your life. Not unless you learn to be open for other possibilities.



Oh I'm very much aware of this. And no, I assure you I'm not locked on auto to automatically see the worst in people. I sway that way, but I'm able to pull back and be a little more objective. I will admit it reverts back to seeing a bleaker side of humanity though.

But the fact remains is I am very much open to other possibilities. That's why I'm here asking all of this. If I wasn't hopeful there was an alternative way of looking at all of this I probably wouldn't be here. I certainly, unequivocally do NOT want my more pessimistic thoughts to be confirmed. Actual, objectively bad things occur, and it is indeed---you are right in this regard--my frim belief that things veer towards the pessimistic. I equate a fair bit of intelligence with pessimism. It's not that I think intelligence automatically equals being more negative though. As I was saying, I'm very, very much opened to the idea my level of bleakness is skewing towards an irrational extreme. I'm pretty sure of it as a matter of fact.
Art Vandelay
New Member
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:12 pm
Likes Received: 0

#18

Postby Cpt Yossarian » Tue May 24, 2016 3:14 pm

I give everything I had to others, my family and friends. Now I'm broke.
Cpt Yossarian
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 am
Likes Received: 14

#19

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue May 24, 2016 8:45 pm

Very sorry to hear that Cpt Yossarian. I really am. I make so little money that I may as well be broke. But I also subsist on my mom.

I sometimes worry I could go down that road if I started giving. I fear I could give too much. My misanthropy stems from a sensitivity towards other people in the past that has wounded; felt the generosity as a weakness, to the extreme that I would have liked to have taken it to. That's what prevents me from being altruistic, in addition to many other factors.

Lately I've been really, really trying to sacrifice and stifle my first cynical impulses, but it's also really, really hurting. Physically. I feel my bones start to ache from the self-awareness of my own submission.

tijmenklip, back to your point about my experience being shaped by HOW I view the world, it's easier said than done to undo this. I'm constantly trying to twist around the reality in my head, in the sense of 'Oh, maybe <person> really didn't mean it that way. I'm probably being too irrational.' But again and again my suspicions are proven right. Maybe part of me is looking for the negative to crop up, but certainly not to the depth that I experience even when going in to a situation with a positive mindset (albeit sometimes cautiously). Quickly my enthusiasm gets deflated. Now, I will say the possibility remains that I'm experiencing manic states. I'm currently trialing a bipolar med in conjunction with antidepressants (which I've been taking for years. And I'm well aware that antidepressants can exacerbate symptoms of those with bipolarism.). While I'm certain it's a great likelihood that I build up too much excitement and inevitably come down from a high by appearing overly positive/enthusiastic to people, I can just FEEL these hugely negative states from people even when I believe I'm being objective. You're right in that these negative emotions are very deep-seated at this point and can absolutely appear as the reality at times, but there's just certain negative aspects of life that I flat-out accept. I'm very close to certain these vibes I get from people are real, but then again I suppose if I were still experiencing imbalance (which I do believe I am, even throughout this ongoing treatment) I could not see them as anything other than what my out of whack chemistry is projecting.

It's a really tricky thing to know - with those who have depression or anxiety - how to best gauge which of your fears and pessimism etc. is steeped in reality and which is imbalance driven.
Art Vandelay
New Member
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:12 pm
Likes Received: 0

#20

Postby JuliusFawcett » Sat May 28, 2016 12:29 pm

We are sociable creatures, when you are happy, it is easier for others to be happier around you. The world is a more fun place. That's why I am a happiness coach.
User avatar
JuliusFawcett
Super Member
 
Posts: 10112
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Chesham, Bucks. England
Likes Received: 552


Previous

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Self Esteem & Confidence